Can Anyone Tell Me If This Is Normal?

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Jjaynutz

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Last Friday I got some clones, 3 Sour Deisel and 3 Blue Dream. The Blue dream is doing solid and looks really great. The Sour D on the other hand look odd and I am not sure if it's just the strain, which is the response I received when I sent a message to the place I got them. The fan leaves are twisting and curling in every direction. The plants get no nutes other than 4ml of cal-mag. The water used is phd at 6.0, aerated 24 hours a day and is getting watered every other day when the soil is sufficiently dried up.

Anyone else experience this? My guys say they'll be just fine and actually look good but I don't 100% trust that.
 
Can anyone tell me if this is normal
Can anyone tell me if this is normal 2
J

Jjaynutz

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The temps range about 70-75, I thought it was low humidity so I added the humidifier 2 days ago. Some days the leaves look stronger and some days they look like this. No real rhyme or reason. The Blue Dream is loving life under the same conditions.
 
Toaster79

Toaster79

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6.0 is too low for the soil. Try 6.5 and let the soil dry out before watering so the pots are light but not bone dry. Once the soil is dry enough they'll start praying to the lights sticking their fingers almost straight up.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
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Welcome to the farm! I have to ask though, why just "cal-mag" and water? That's one of the strangest feeding combinations I've ever read. They want for P, and will want for N and K soon enough, along with the other macroelements.
Looks like wet shoes and wet air in combination with low temperature but I might very well be wrong with the info you provided
Also they're not at all happy with the pH parameters. VERY not happy. The twisting and crepey appearance says so.
 
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Jjaynutz

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According to the guys I got them from, I was instructed to only feed with Cal Mag as the soil and last feedings gave the plants enough food to last for a few weeks. I am starting to see some yellowing and my Cyco Platinum kit arrives tomorrow. The good news is the plants are drying up nicely and as T79 mentioned, they are starting to reach for the sky. I think that by tomorrow eve they'll be ready for a drink and I am going to hit them with 1/2 the recommended dosage of nutes. I'd love feedback.

In regards to them not liking the ph it's only the sour Deisel that looks twisted up, the Blue Dream is friggin beautiful.
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Jjaynutz

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So today is the 3rd day since the last watering of both the Sour D and Blue Dream. The Sour D still looks unimpressive but the Blue Dream is still going solid and looking nice better than ever after a bit of drying up. The first pic is the Sour D to the left of the BD. The last pic is the BD to the right of the SD.

Cyco Platinum kit arrives today. I was planning on 1/2 of the recommended doses. My thought process is one of what I hope to be common sense, in other words let's slowly introduce nutes for the first week and make sure everything responds ok. I am also thinking that with the SD I should try one fix at a time, maybe the nutes will help.

Any thoughts/comments are appreciated. Thanks.
 
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Jjaynutz

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Rule of thumb, don't trust the jackasses at dispos. And x2 on never ever hearing of a calm again feed only. Almost as good as adding grape Faygo in your water days to enhance flavor. Utter BS
Duly noted, any advice on how to proceed though?
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

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Ok, assuming those plants are actually in soil, then there should be a whole host of mineral nutrients available to them. That said, it looks like they're getting close to outgrowing their containers.

These next subjects are a bit lengthy, but if you go to my thread The Charts, you'll find some, you know, charts in there. The ones I would like you to look for are the VPD charts and the pH charts. I still believe that it's pH that's causing the twisting and crepey appearance on some of those plants.

Your observation that some of them are doing well is your introduction into multi-cropping, or rather it's a demonstration of how different strains react to how they're being cared for.

So the soil that you're using looks about spent, if you're not going to repot them just yet into new soil I would suggest feeding something like Fox Farms Big Bloom, starting at low rates (I usually start at about 1/8th the recommended dose, then work my way up or down depending on how the plant responds). Pay attention to pH parameters, in soil you want a range in the mid 6's (6.2-6.8 generally), so media plays a role here you'll see.

Learn about vapor pressure deficit (VPD) and you'll learn why @Toaster79 thought your plants were cold, I did, too. It is, in a nutshell, the plant's heart, its circulation system.

Cal-mag only is a feeding program I've never heard of before, it only addresses two of the 17 required minerals, and I'm willing to bet that whatever they had you buy is only a 2:1 or 3:1 ratio of Ca:Mg, which is bereft of Ca. (I'm using periodic table symbols here, ask if we're not being clear and we'll flesh it out). The plants still need N, P and K.

If you don't already, get yourself a basic vegetative growth fertilizer, it doesn't have to be the one I mentioned above, but it should provide at least N, P and K (if that's all it provides you'll have to make sure the soil mix makes up for the rest) with N being the highest number.

Beyond this, I suggest looking through the GrowFAQ at upper left. :)
 
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Jjaynutz

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It is indeed soil. I will definitely check out the Charts when I wrap up in the office.

I just want to say that I am open to doing something other than what the CloneGuys have instructed. I spent a ton of cash on these and I figured since he was the breeder, he would know best...although I did have my own doubts based on what I have shared thus far, hence the reason I joined. The plant looks limp and this guy is just telling me to let it be and just water every so often with Cal/Mag (I bought Botanicare and have run 4ML per CG's direction), well that just didn't add up.

Cyco Platinum Series nutes have arrived today. I am not dismissing your recommended nutes but I am wondering if I can use what I just spent money on to help correct the issue. I would love to repot these bad boys BUT what is the correct protocol? Deal with the ugliness and try to correct it before adding the risk of transplant shock or transplant ever so gently and slowly start adding nutes?

I have Fox Farm Ocean Forest soil and Fox Farm potting soil (a lighter nutrient mix according to the hydro shop). I also have CYCO Coco Coir which is for some seedlings I was gonna run hydro after I get this first group up and running in flower. If I transplant to one of these soils should I hold off on nutes to see what happens?
 
Wisher619

Wisher619

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I have a ??
is the soil that those plants in from the clone guy?
Is that what he uses to grow?
To be completely honest with you...none of those plants realy look well at all to me...With that being said....In my opinion I would let the soil actually dry out....first the leaves should point towards the sky then slowly start to droop.....at that point I would then water again....to me it looks like they are water logged and the ph is way off

To answr your ? about nutes
yes you can use the stuff you just bought
I myself like growing in Coir.....I just recently through a plant in some soil and feel so disapointed as the coir growth is far superior in my opinion.....in any case you can transplant now if you would like and if it is going into fox farms....I would mix both of them together 50/50 of the Ocean Forest and Potting mix
as the others have said....feeding just CalMag+ is weird.....it does give some N but that is it....they need P for root growth
What I would do is take one of your SD and transplant to the 50/50 mix and hit it with a 1/4 does of growth nutes from Cyco...and see how it reacts....and remember th PH to 6.3-6.7.....very important.....even though your potting mix has buffers the mineral based nutes MUST be ph'd properly when going in....if you were feeding something like a compost trea it wouldnt matter but mineral based nutes need to be ph'd

If you dont already have one....get a ph pen and a ec/ppm pen and get to know them well....they will become your best friend

as for nutes.....the recomended dose is usually for heavy feeder crops such as Tomatoes and peppers that can take 2500-3000ppm which is completely rediculous for cannabis
with all that being said experiment with at least one plant and see what is does...if it works then on to the next
 
J

Jjaynutz

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Wished 619, I am all in with your recipe. I like that you're growing in Coco too. If I want to transplant one of these to Coco am I safe just washing the dirt off gently in water and depositing the rockwool and roots in to a 50/50 coco /perlite mix? I have been doing ALLOT of research and that seems to be the standard other than promix.
 
Dunge

Dunge

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I'm with wisher619 on this, but would suggest a cheaper liquid pH test might serve your needs.
Not as accurate as a pen, but easy, cheap, and reliable.
Pens are none of these IME.

DO NOT attempt to replace (wash off) your medium.
Up-pot and let them grow out of their troubles.

Do you have a postage scale?
Weighing the plants will tell you exactly how much water your plants are using.
 
J

Jjaynutz

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I'm with wisher619 on this, but would suggest a cheaper liquid pH test might serve your needs.
Not as accurate as a pen, but easy, cheap, and reliable.
Pens are none of these IME.

DO NOT attempt to replace (wash off) your medium.
Up-pot and let them grow out of their troubles.

Do you have a postage scale?
Weighing the plants will tell you exactly how much water your plants are using.
You guys are awesome. I was thinking about getting cute with the coco for 1 plant but I am gonna repot 1 this afternoon in a 50/50 mix of Ocean Forest and Potting mix. I have a TDS pen and I have a water PH kit. I have never tested soil PH but when I go to get my pots I will get one of these. Don't lop my head off for not testing the soil please. LOL. I was improperly guided by the seller of these clones.

I have a postal scale. Great idea.

Thanks for all the help again.
 
Wisher619

Wisher619

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no you really don't need to test the soil..with regular feedings of correct ph it will start to straighten itself out
as for the coco...there are 2 ways to go about it....you could soak the roots in water until most of the soil is rinsed and then transplant into coco ....or you could just up-pot into coco and that would be fine to.....just remember...for your soil mix the nutes need to be between 6.2-6.7 @ 6.5 being the sweet spot......now for the coco.....it is between 5.3-6.2 with 5.8/5.9 being the sweet spot...that is the ph of the nutrients going in
if I were transplanting into coco...I would want to get rid of the stuff they are sitting in but either way is fine
once the roots grow into coco.....you will never really have to worry about overwatering as when the media is at full saturation it still holds about 25-30% oxygen......roots will never drown
in either direction you go...make sure the ph of the nutrients are correct and make sure that the ppm/ec is at a healthy value
meaning not to strong and not to light
if you are gonna run coco then the ec of the nutes become extremely critical as you can feed multiple times a day with a lower strength nutrient solution for extreme results....over soil
first things first
but as I said before......Although the Blue Dream do look a little better.........all of them don't really look so hot...AT ALL..

best of luck....feel free to shoot any more ?'s you might have
 
J

Jjaynutz

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Ok, I think I am learning here. So I mixed the recommended nutes at 1/4 the strength. The recommended PPM was 1,000 at full strength and my TDS Meter has my mixture PPMs at 250. I would have to assume that means I did exactly 1/4 strength of the recommended dose. That seems pretty intuitive but can someone confirm? My water PPM was at 140 before adding anything. The total mixture was brought to 6.5ph. The plants went into 50/50 Fox Farm Potting and Ocean Forest mix. I applied the nutes until I saw runoff and then put them back under the light.
 
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