Confused about what a node is

[phillyguy]

I want to top and lst my clone. I guess you wait for 4 to 6 nodes. Is a node where 2 leaves come out together as opposed to a single leaf? Does a young one only have nodes to start? My mind has a hard time with things as I always doubt myself. Please help me understand. TIA.

 

[WickedMichelle]

If you look at the stalk you can see the levels. From the topping videos I have watched, the node is where the fan leaves are.

 

[ArtfulCodger]

It can get a little confusing with clones, because the leaves are often staggered. When there are staggered leaves/growth sites coming out of a branch, you want to top above the higher one (assuming you want to top above that node.) If you post a picture of a plant you want to top, it will be easier to talk about.

 

[WickedMichelle]

It can get a little confusing with clones, because the leaves are often staggered

I did not know that. I just learned something

 

[LoveGrowingIt]

I did not know that. I just learned something

Alternate phyllotaxis is what it's called. It's an indication of maturity. The plants begin with opposite phyllotaxis and change as they mature. The reason clones usually show the more mature form of phyllotaxis is because they inherit the age of their mother plant at the time they were cloned.

 

[WickedMichelle]

Alternate phyllotaxis is what it's called. It's an indication of maturity. The plants begin with opposite phyllotaxis and change as they mature. The reason clones usually show the more mature form of phyllotaxis is because they inherit the age of their mother plant at the time they were cloned.

My only knowledge of clones is from the series "Weeds" Really happy I jumped in here. Thank you!

 

[Thatoneguyyouknow_]

To make it as simple as possible.

A node is any part of a plant that a leaf, or new growth shoot can emerge from. The empty stem space between the nodes are called the inter-node. The stem that attaches the leaf to the node is called a petiole, and i believe the little pointy things that shield he new growth shoots are called sepals, but dont quote me on that one.

Immature plants have symmetrical nodes, mature plants have alternating notes.


A node, generally, outside plant concepts, is just a place that multiple things come together in a single point. And thats why we call them nodes on plants lol

 

[LoveGrowingIt]

Nodes are also where growth hormones are produced. This can be important to keep in mind while pruning.

 

[WickedMichelle]

Nodes are also where growth hormones are produced. This can be important to keep in mind while pruning.

Can you explain this a little more? What should we watch out for when pruning with regard to the growth hormones?

 

[LoveGrowingIt]

Can you explain this a little more? What should we watch out for when pruning with regard to the growth hormones?

It's why we top above or past a node. Cutting below or before a node leaves stem that can't grow and is susceptible to decay or disease.

 

[WickedMichelle]

It's why we top above or past a node. Cutting below or before a node leaves stem that can't grow and is susceptible to decay or disease.

Ah,that makes sense. I assumed you just cut above because the little sprouts between the leaf stem and stalk were where the new stems grew.

 

[Thatoneguyyouknow_]

Nodes are also where growth hormones are produced. This can be important to keep in mind while pruning.

The growth auxins are actually produced in the roots, and only the nodes furthest from the root system (the apex nodes), and then spreads from there. Any given node is only producing auxins itself for a couple of days max usually. Then it starts receiving auxins from the new apex nodes. On large plants, This is why clones from the newest growth, and clones taken closely to the root system root so much faster then canopy clones, even if the canopy clones are bigger.

 

[cannafarmer420]

You can top once you have true leaves, I don't clone much but it's still the same concept

 

[LoveGrowingIt]

The growth auxins are actually produced in the roots, and only the nodes furthest from the root system (the apex nodes), and then spreads from there. Any given node is only producing auxins itself for a couple of days max usually. Then it starts receiving auxins from the new apex nodes. On large plants, This is why clones from the newest growth, and clones taken closely to the root system root so much faster then canopy clones, even if the canopy clones are bigger.

Yes. They are primarily produced in the apical meristems of plant shoots and roots, and are transported to other parts of the plant where they influence various growth responses.

 

[Mikedin]

Yes. They are primarily produced in the apical meristems of plant shoots and roots, and are transported to other parts of the plant where they influence various growth responses.

I like how this topic transformed to some simple help to a in-depth explain of apical Dominance, how to break it, and for what reasons we break it, where to cut, and why, and a ton of simple explanations to break it down

I applaud all those who helped here

@Thatoneguyyouknow_ @cannafarmer420 @LoveGrowingIt @ArtfulCodger

 

[WickedMichelle]

I applaud all those who helped here

I will 2nd that. I have learned a lot here today. Thank you all!

 

[Thatoneguyyouknow_]

Is just my opinion/how i do things, but growth hormones being produced in apex nodes shouldnt really inform your decision on how you prune the plant, that should be entirely informed by space concerns, and the way the plant wants to grow contrasted with the way you want it to grow lol. You cannot prune a plant without removing apex nodes, that isnt even possible lol. You can defoliate without removing apex nodes, but you cant prune. And if you do prune away apex nodes, by the next afternoon the plant will have chosen 1, sometimes 2 to replace them, and youll actually end up with a larger plant with more surface area more quickly by increasing your count of apex nodes closer to the root system.

But yea, dont leave no main stem sticks jutting out between new shoots if you top. asking for troubles. Ive dont that many times from lazyness and had no issues at all, but if that stem is hollow, you are asking for big troubles. If you can avoid it, you dont ever want to prune back below where the stem has hardened. It no longer has a spongey inner pith, and its hollow at that point. If you grab a plants stem and flex it, you can feel where the pith stops, and the stem goes totally hollow and rigid. It's different on every plant, and its even different with different feeding regiments on the same plant. Usually top 6 inches of a branch is pretty soft on a large plant, on smaller plants sometimes you only get a few inches of spongey pith below the apex.


I just cut my mystery sativa back recently, from a nbearly 5 foot bush to a tiny little thing. Cut large hollow main stems, removed probably 3/4 of the plant. As of now its coming back hard and heavy, and will still probably finish bigger then some of my other plants. I left big hollow sticks jutting out between the shoots in several places, and im not worried one bit about that, tbh. Ive taped split stalks back together after cleaning slugs and ants out of the split then a couple spritzes of h202, and the plant seemed like it barely even noticed. Once mature these things are some of the hardiest, most adaptable plants ive ever tinkered with honestly. They dont even flinch or wilt when things happen that would kill many of my other species of plants, to be fair.

 

[Mikedin]

Is just my opinion/how i do things, but growth hormones being produced in apex nodes shouldnt really inform your decision on how you prune the plant, that should be entirely informed by space concerns, and the way the plant wants to grow contrasted with the way you want it to grow lol. You cannot prune a plant without removing apex nodes, that isnt even possible lol. You can defoliate without removing apex nodes, but you cant prune. And if you do prune away apex nodes, by the next afternoon the plant will have chosen 1, sometimes 2 to replace them, and youll actually end up with a larger plant with more surface area more quickly by increasing your count of apex nodes closer to the root system.

But yea, dont leave no main stem sticks jutting out between new shoots if you top. asking for troubles. Ive dont that many times from lazyness and had no issues at all, but if that stem is hollow, you are asking for big troubles. If you can avoid it, you dont ever want to prune back below where the stem has hardened. It no longer has a spongey inner pith, and its hollow at that point. If you grab a plants stem and flex it, you can feel where the pith stops, and the stem goes totally hollow and rigid. It's different on every plant, and its even different with different feeding regiments on the same plant. Usually top 6 inches of a branch is pretty soft on a large plant, on smaller plants sometimes you only get a few inches of spongey pith below the apex.


I just cut my mystery sativa back recently, from a nbearly 5 foot bush to a tiny little thing. Cut large hollow main stems, removed probably 3/4 of the plant. As of now its coming back hard and heavy, and will still probably finish bigger then some of my other plants. I left big hollow sticks jutting out between the shoots in several places, and im not worried one bit about that, tbh. Ive taped split stalks back together after cleaning slugs and ants out of the split then a couple spritzes of h202, and the plant seemed like it barely even noticed. Once mature these things are some of the hardiest, most adaptable plants ive ever tinkered with honestly. They dont even flinch or wilt when things happen that would kill many of my other species of plants, to be fair.

Split a stalk with a main cola last run, splinted it with a metal clothes hanger and a bunch of electrica tape, she finished just fine lol, they really are hearty plants, just a few select things they don’t like

If you really need to cut back heavy and have big exposed hollow stems (and it’s a normal thing for you to cut back mothers etc) you can get some of that tree wound heal stuff to seal the stump end

But in a clean environment like a tent I’ve never had issues letting them heal naturally, outdoors I’d want to seal the end

 

[phillyguy]

It can get a little confusing with clones, because the leaves are often staggered. When there are staggered leaves/growth sites coming out of a branch, you want to top above the higher one (assuming you want to top above that node.) If you post a picture of a plant you want to top, it will be easier to talk about.

These aren't the plants but where do I do the second topping?

 

[ArtfulCodger]

These aren't the plants but where do I do the second topping?

Plant shaping involves a lot of personal preference, but I wouldn't do a second topping growing outdoors. Light penetration from the sun is essentially infinite, so you don't need to flatten the canopy. Indoors, I top every other node after the first topping, which is usually above the fourth or fifth node.