The fragility of terpenes/smell profile over time

[hydrodreams]

The last few years I have cultivated about 20 strains from bought seeds. I have always had the intention to find a phenotype that I can make motherplants of that will provied me with clones for as long as possible.
My observation in most cases was, that the seed plant had a very strong and distinct terpene profile with an end product that just smelled as strong. Then after I took a clone for a mother, with every time I took clones for the next round, the terpene profile got weaker and weaker, nowhere even close to the initial seed plant. The thing is, that I observed this on seeds from several seedbank. One example I can make is Marshmallow OG from compound genetics.

How much are reasons known for this phenomena? Can breeders control this deliberately (Since they want people to buy seeds as often and not make clones)?

 

[Trash_2002]

The last few years I have cultivated about 20 strains from bought seeds. I have always had the intention to find a phenotype that I can make motherplants of that will provied me with clones for as long as possible.
My observation in most cases was, that the seed plant had a very strong and distinct terpene profile with an end product that just smelled as strong. Then after I took a clone for a mother, with every time I took clones for the next round, the terpene profile got weaker and weaker, nowhere even close to the initial seed plant. The thing is, that I observed this on seeds from several seedbank. One example I can make is Marshmallow OG from compound genetics.

How much are reasons known for this phenomena? Can breeders control this deliberately (Since they want people to buy seeds as often and not make clones)?

Never ever in my growing decades I observed that, plants from seeds are a bit stronger to develop and usually yields a little bit more than clones with same veg time, but terpenes is always the 'same", it will vary from grow environment, stress related and each growers hands too, temp/RH drying and curing also plays a bit part of the terpenes in the long run.

You want to dry 18-21c 55-60% Rh max
You want to start cure between 18-21c only when flower have around 12-15% water content.
You want to long term storage at 16c wine fridge with boveda packs Inside bormiolli roco fido glass for best results..only open a jar to split it in smaller jars, for consumption, every time you open it after cure you are degrading it. Everything in the most darkness possible too. Seal wine fridge doors from light.

 

[Trash_2002]

A grower could grow the most beautiful flowers you ever seen, just to fuck it all up with poor after harvest procedure, drying, curing, storage.

I prefer smoking flower that don't look all that good but was properly harvested, cured , stored than beautiful flowers with poor after harvest any day, it's the most important thing and where the connesieurs growers thrive.

 

[hydrodreams]

A grower could grow the most beautiful flowers you ever seen, just to fuck it all up with poor after harvest procedure, drying, curing, storage.

I prefer smoking flower that don't look all that good but was properly harvested, cured , stored than beautiful flowers with poor after harvest any day, it's the most important thing and where the connesieurs growers thrive.

It would be a win for everybody if more people woud think like that, but in the times of instagram I doubt it.

Never ever in my growing decades I observed that, plants from seeds are a bit stronger to develop and usually yields a little bit more than clones with same veg time, but terpenes is always the 'same", it will vary from grow environment, stress related and each growers hands too, temp/RH drying and curing also plays a bit part of the terpenes in the long run.

You want to dry 18-21c 55-60% Rh max
You want to start cure between 18-21c only when flower have around 12-15% water content.
You want to long term storage at 16c wine fridge with boveda packs Inside bormiolli roco fido glass for best results..only open a jar to split it in smaller jars, for consumption, every time you open it after cure you are degrading it. Everything in the most darkness possible too. Seal wine fridge doors from light.

In my case with the Marshmallow OG from Compound genetics that I mentioned earlier, it's already the case during the grow that the nose is so much weaker than the initial seed plant...

 

[GNick55]

It would be a win for everybody if more people woud think like that, but in the times of instagram I doubt it.


In my case with the Marshmallow OG from Compound genetics that I mentioned earlier, it's already the case during the grow that the nose is so much weaker than the initial seed plant...

maybe your grow has HLVd..

 

[Wuddup_B]

Mine have been the opposite for some reason. My clones are always better at everything including yield than the original. I almost considered doing cup grows from seeds and only do large crowds with the clones.

 

[hydrodreams]

maybe your grow has HLVd..

I knew that something like HLVd exists and that it's one of the most feared patogens in commercial cannabis growing, but I never started to read about it. Until now that you mentioned it.... The mother plants of the marshmallow OG that i mentioned earlier have indeed some symptomes of what I just read: Slow growth, extreme brittle branches (sometimes I just touched them a bit and they would break already), extreme lateral branching, rather small leaves even if the plant is still rather small....Very slow and poor rooting as clones ( I dont know if this a symptome)
The one thing that speaks against it is that the yield is exceptionally good...

 

[GNick55]

I knew that something like HLVd exists and that it's one of the most feared patogens in commercial cannabis growing, but I never started to read about it. Until now that you mentioned it.... The mother plants of the marshmallow OG that i mentioned earlier have indeed some symptomes of what I just read: Slow growth, extreme brittle branches (sometimes I just touched them a bit and they would break already), extreme lateral branching, rather small leaves even if the plant is still rather small....Very slow and poor rooting as clones ( I dont know if this a symptome)
The one thing that speaks against it is that the yield is exceptionally good...

they say anything
kush is probably the worst off..

 

[GNick55]

they are keeping hlvd quiet because it probably has already infected every grow/breeder/seedbank worldwide.,
and tissue culture can miss detecting it.,
so we are all doomed.,

 

[GNick55]

they are keeping hlvd quiet because it probably has already infected every grow/breeder/seedbank worldwide.,
and tissue culture can miss detecting it.,
so we are all doomed.,

really what should happen is no more cloning ever..
JUST GROW SEEDS..

 

[hydrodreams]

they are keeping hlvd quiet because it probably has already infected every grow/breeder/seedbank worldwide.,
and tissue culture can miss detecting it.,
so we are all doomed.,

Whom do you mean with "they"?

really what should happen is no more cloning ever..
JUST GROW SEEDS..

From what I have learned today in my limited reading about HLVd it can be transmitted via seeds as well. And if, as you say "every breeder" has it as well, then I don't see a workaround in using seed instead of clones. And my trust in breeders in general is super low. Some of them might have the proficiency to create exceptional strains, but in reality I see almost all of them trying to make as much money as possible with untested products.

 

[alpha.ganjaguy]

Mine have been the opposite for some reason. My clones are always better at everything including yield than the original. I almost considered doing cup grows from seeds and only do large crowds with the clones.

this is my experience as well, in fact whenever I can afford to I will grow out the from seed, take a clone and toss the from seed plant due to the benefits I find with the clone vs from seed

 

[alpha.ganjaguy]

they are keeping hlvd quiet because it probably has already infected every grow/breeder/seedbank worldwide.,
and tissue culture can miss detecting it.,
so we are all doomed.,

they were but with that story earlier this year, anyone that looks around should be aware of it now..

(may all be the same story copy and pasted but it's certainly been everywhere that shows cannabis news)

90% of California Cannabis Farms are Infected with a Pathogen, Hop-latent viroid (HLVd) — Covspect Biosafety for all

More than 90% of Calif. pot farms are infected with a ‘severe’ pathogen called Hop-Latent Viroid (HLVd). An infectious pathogen inside California’s pot farms called Hop-latent viroid, or HLVd is attacking cannabis plants and growing invisibly for months only to spoil a crop just as a farmer is ready

covspect.com

Over 90% of Calif. pot farms infected with ‘severe’ pathogen

A “severe” infectious pathogen that attacks cannabis plants is spreading around the world. This Oakland tech startup thinks they have a solution.

www.sfgate.com

Report: More Than 90% of California Cannabis Infected with Hop-Latent Viroid - Ganjapreneur

More than 90% of cannabis in California is infected with a pathogen that effectively destroys the plant and could wreak havoc on the state’s industry,

www.ganjapreneur.com

 

[GNick55]

they were but with that story earlier this year, anyone that looks around should be aware of it now..

(may all be the same story copy and pasted but it's certainly been everywhere that shows cannabis news)

90% of California Cannabis Farms are Infected with a Pathogen, Hop-latent viroid (HLVd) — Covspect Biosafety for all

More than 90% of Calif. pot farms are infected with a ‘severe’ pathogen called Hop-Latent Viroid (HLVd). An infectious pathogen inside California’s pot farms called Hop-latent viroid, or HLVd is attacking cannabis plants and growing invisibly for months only to spoil a crop just as a farmer is ready

covspect.com

Over 90% of Calif. pot farms infected with ‘severe’ pathogen

A “severe” infectious pathogen that attacks cannabis plants is spreading around the world. This Oakland tech startup thinks they have a solution.

www.sfgate.com

Report: More Than 90% of California Cannabis Infected with Hop-Latent Viroid - Ganjapreneur

More than 90% of cannabis in California is infected with a pathogen that effectively destroys the plant and could wreak havoc on the state’s industry,

www.ganjapreneur.com

yes i meant other than searching for it, lots still have no clue., and it’s been a serious issue for the last 4 yrs.. so it’s spread wide.. ex..Hawaii didn’t have any cases of if it until someone brought clones over and now they are all dealing with it..
stick with seeds at least

 

[alpha.ganjaguy]

yes i meant other than searching for it, lots still have no clue., and it’s been a serious issue for the last 4 yrs.. so it’s spread wide.. ex..Hawaii didn’t have any cases of if it until someone brought clones over and now they are all dealing with it..
stick with seeds at least

you mean other people don't start their morning googling cannabis news with the wake n bake? huh.. interesting lol

 

[GNick55]

you mean other people don't start their morning googling cannabis news with the wake n bake? huh.. interesting lol

here’s my main source sign up to this..
least your updated with the latest test etc..

 

[Deadstill]

they are keeping hlvd quiet because it probably has already infected every grow/breeder/seedbank worldwide.,
and tissue culture can miss detecting it.,
so we are all doomed.,

Actually just to set the record straight (and I'm not trying to be a dick here so please don't take it that way)

HLV'd can only be prognosticated by PCR or LAMP test

And tissue culture is one of the only ways to eradicate it, and it takes 6 months to 1 year.

Also, seeds can be cleaned with 10% bleach solution (I highly recommend everyone do this before starting seeds no matter where they came from)

Also another symptom of HLV'd is Christmas tree-like growth.

 

[alpha.ganjaguy]

tissue culture is not considered a 100% guarantee to cure though, I believe that's what gnick meant but