Azatrol DWC concerns...

[Duder]

Have been searching online for hours and cant find enough info on Azatrol for my application. I am in wk 7 bloom of 10 wk, DWC, 12 gal tote (9 gal fluid), hydroton med, and in grow tent. I recently discovered what I believe to be "gnats" floating at the top of the res water. Most seem dead and some are hopping around but they seem to be in small groups. I cant find any gnats or bugs present outside of the res around the plant or the grow area. The plant and roots seem fine right now but I lost a plant a wk or 2 ago (a few days into bloom) from the same problem, I just didn't catch it in time. DEF cannot afford the same outcome with this being so late in flower and everything looking nice up to this point.

From all the research and advice from the shop, I picked up 16 oz of Azatrol. As directed, I mixed 30 ml with a gal jug of water, and poured into the res totaling around 9 gal. Adjusted the ph to 5.8 after water top off, and now I wait to see what happens... It looks like any of their activity is dead, the few that I do see around the milky fluid are just floating. So here's where I have a few concerns/questions.

I wanted to add Shooting Powder at the beginning of wk 7, but because of this issue, I thought I'd wait until top of wk 8 until I get more information. Can I add the Shooting Powder while the Azatrol is in the res still? Also, I'm concerned how much longer I can keep using Azatrol in flower without effecting the beautiful plant? I already planned to flush with plain water for the whole week of wk 10. I hope I included enough info, but if more is needed, please ask. Basically, I need to know if I can just continue my normal feed schedule as planned now that I added the Azatrol? Assuming of course that it takes care of the bug problem. Also has anyone else heard of these gnats or any type of bug that's only in the res? Mostly floating and nowhere else?

ANY help/input is greatly appreciated, thanks for your time...

 

[mastacheeser]

theyre probally gnats
they lay eggs on the roots of your plants and the larva eat the roots
azatrol is the bomb and will prob take care of it(but dont take my word for it)
gnats also hate cold temps and fans
so if possible bump the temp down and throw up some extra fans
taking some fan leaves will help get some extra air flow in the room as well
how often are you watering, in my coco grows i bumped the number of times i water each day down and i havent see gnat probs since
as far as the shooting powder goes id wait to be safe, its just a couple extra days right?

 

[mastacheeser]

any pics?

 

[Duder]

thanks for the quick response masta. I have been having higher temps recently and am trying to get them down (mid/high 80's 30-60 rh), but my res temps never seem to go above 68 F or so. I also think I'm going to stop co2 for now just getting to the end of the tank. As a whole, it is bushy as hell and I'm sure trimming would help. Guess I was waiting for them to almost die off or when they're easy to pull...

My watering is just once a day in the bucket. Consistently seems to drink between 3 and 4 liters/day as well. For the shooting powder, the only reason I asked if it was fine to use now was because my ec is dialed in at perfect ec/ppm right now for use. It looks like I'm just gonna wait another day or two. Flush, feed, and use then the shooting powder

 

[Duder]

Also, I forgot to ask...Do you or anyone else have any input as to how long I can use the Azatrol in flower? I've heard conflicting reports that you shouldn't use it after a certain point in bloom. I also have read that it can sometimes take 1-3 weeks to fully eliminate problems because it doesn't actually kill them, it cuts their food supply or something along those lines .

Would I be fine using it up to wk 10 (right before week long flush) if I had to? Without effecting the taste, yield, etc? Keep in mind I am in hydro dwc and do not foliar/spray anything once in flower (which is where I've read people not recommending after certain time in bloom). Or would it also not hurt to just cut the Azatrol, and even if the pests came back, leave untreated (Azatrol) for the final few weeks?

Thanks again for the input on this time sensitive matter

 

[mastacheeser]

i was always confused on this one too
im pretty sure the azamaxx website says its good until harvest
i would have to assume anything spayed on you buds would be a terrible idea
its more of a risk/reward thing to me
is the problem bad enough that you might have to harvest early? that would be the only time i would spray right on

 

[Duder]

Yeah I hear you on that. I never planned to spray because I never found a pest outside of the buckets to date. I even did the wine test last night, setting a glass of wine in the tent to attract any pests. Checked today, nothing. I'm just really curious how they all formed to begin with, at least so I can prevent it from happening in the future. Would I be doing other harm by using Azatrol all the way to harvest with my normal feed, if I really had to?

I'm going to flush/feed on schedule with the Shooting Powder without adding the Azatrol to the mix. I don't see any of them living, just a few dead ones floating. I just don't really know if I should keep it in longer or add with new flush/feed due to conflicting things I've heard/read. Obviously I hope I never have to use it again, but if I do, and have to use it with weekly feeds, how is that effecting the final harvest? Just wish I had more knowledge on the issue, especially at such a crucial stage.

 

[SSHZ]

All I can add is I use Azatrol, when necessary all the way thru flowering with no problems at all. I love this stuff, it does a great job when applied properly. You should only be adding it every two weeks or so and should be adjusting the concentration depending on how severe the problem is. You can use it all the way up to cutting with no issues what so ever.

 

[mastacheeser]

yep the lil bastards can be hard to spot
i fog my rooms with azamax every two weeks as a preventive measure
alot of people do a azamax/neem/pyrethum mix to keep anything from building a tolerance to anything
at least you didnt have mites!!!!!(knock on wood)
good luck to ya
would love to see some pics of the ladies

 

[Toes]

Sup Duder,

nice nick.

imma throw my thoughts on these gnats out there fer ya. Like the Mastacheeser pointed out... the larvae are big the problem. I've got a big one with these AKA "fruit flies". Mostly because the temps in my greenhouse at the root zone this time of year make the containers slow to completely dry out. The moist media, peat moss and perlite, make for a great habitat for these lil bastards to thrive and eat my roots. Letting my media dry out between waterings should solve this problem. But like I said, the temps just are not favorable right now.

Fungus gnat larvae damage kinda mimics a nute burn or water stress symptoms with leaf droop and so on. Look for necro tips and edges on older growth. prune the dead leaves and necro tips because...

The adults feed on decaying plant matter (good relationship, the babies kill the leaves then the adults eat them) keeping your garden clean and free of dead leaves is good. You said the roots look fine, sometimes the little worms can hide real good in a root ball, but if you can't see the bastards in your roots then probably, they are looking for something to eat from somewhere else. If you have house plants, veg and fruit waste in your garbage can, or your compost pile close by, check there.

The neem or azamax shouldn't effect your feeding schedule at all, however, one thing I've noticed about neem extracts (azadirachtin and clarified hydrophobic) when I've used too much, it made my buds smell and taste farnky, like road kill x butthole. So go easy with the stuff it is systemic and it lasts.

(edit:)) i forgot to add how the neem works... it is and antifeedant and a life cycle disruptor. both are of little use for a bad fruit fly infestation. the anti feedant part makes the healthy plant material taste bad to the bugs, since they eat dead plant matter anyways it doesn't matter to them. The oils in the neem coat the larvae and keep them from metamorphosing into adults. As larvae, they are still eating the roots. that's why I am trying something different.

Currently, I'm trying Mosquito Dunks. The BTi is supposed to kill the larvae dead in 24 hours, they eat it and it forms crystals in their little stomachs and blows them up or something. you can pick them up at home improvement stores for like $10... let you know how it works out soon :)

Here's to :harvest::harvest::harvest::harvest:

 

[cemchris]

Sure they are gnats not aphids? Fungus Gnats are about the easiest thing to kill. If it seems like they keep coming back and you cant kill them prob aphids.

Your fine and can use it to harvest but last week it will kill the flavor some. Been using Azatrol for a while. Buy it by the gallon now.

 

[Duder]

Thanks Toes for the info. It helped me understand the matter a little better. So far so good. I've flushed/fed(w/o aza) and no sign of any floating or on the roots, as best I can see. Will wait a few days and treat accordingly.

As far as keeping the medium dry, I will try to do that between feeds. How long do you usually let it sit? I've got my temps around 78 and water at 68 now so things are a little more in check. I will def start pruning the damaged leaves and make sure things are cleaner than before. Although it never was really dirty. Just paying more attention will probably go a long way.

Reading a little on HG Multi Zen today somebody said keep far away from peroxide. Well I remember flushing with peroxide once (on the one that died a few weeks ago) when I first starting seeing problems. I was also using Multi at the same time. Just made me think, I dunno? It may have nothing to do with it.

Let me know how the Mosquito Dunks turn out. I'm interested in hearing the results. 24 hr kill sounds good. masta, sorry no digi camera, in todays age I know!... Ha. Thanks for the advice/posts everyone else too. I'll keep the results updated.

 

[BoCo Buds]

I recently discovered what I believe to be "gnats" floating at the top of the res water. Most seem dead and some are hopping around but they seem to be in small groups.

ANY help/input is greatly appreciated, thanks for your time...

The neem or azamax shouldn't effect your feeding schedule at all, however, one thing I've noticed about neem extracts (azadirachtin and clarified hydrophobic) when I've used too much, it made my buds smell and taste farnky, like road kill x butthole. So go easy with the stuff it is systemic and it lasts.

(edit:)) i forgot to add how the neem works... it is and antifeedant and a life cycle disruptor. both are of little use for a bad fruit fly infestation. the anti feedant part makes the healthy plant material taste bad to the bugs, since they eat dead plant matter anyways it doesn't matter to them. The oils in the neem coat the larvae and keep them from metamorphosing into adults. As larvae, they are still eating the roots. that's why I am trying something different.

Sure they are gnats not aphids? Fungus Gnats are about the easiest thing to kill. If it seems like they keep coming back and you cant kill them prob aphids.

Based on the above, I would venture to guess Springtails... esp if they are about 1 mil in length, whitish, elongated bodies. Check your medium, a little under the top layer... they will likely be there & at the the bottoms of the pots... and apparently now in the lines & rezy.

They tend to pool together & float in massive groups in the rezy w the pop's start to get out of hand... and they breed like no tomorrow. BUT they do no harm to your roots, though are vectors for disease. A nuisance pest, but a real pain in the ass.

Trouble is you won't get all of em by the end of harvest, and the neem will effect taste late in the game. I would just run it out w some tanglefoot at the base of each stalk, so they don't crawl up & die on the nugs. Other than that... run it dry for 10 days after you chop... get all the medium out & all the lines/rez's dry.

GL... real pain in the ass, the springtails!

 

[Duder]

Hey boco, very interesting news. I'm going to check today if they are under the hydroton. 1 mil in length may be correct, although they appear black in the res. When I scooped a group out of the water with a cap and put under a light, they looked kind of green to me. Just ordered a 15 oz of tree tanglefoot insect barrier, so I apply it to the base? Between that and the Azatrol, hopefully that will be enough to battle them for good. I'll keep it updated when I inspcet the hydroton later...

 

[BoCo Buds]

Tanglefoot is a good barrier... meant around the base stalk that comes out of the medium... even support poles if you have those stuck in the medium as well.

Not sure through words, but I've dealt w springtails & the 'hopping' is a dead give away... haven't dealt w any other indoor pest that does this... and they can literally hop like 18-20" in the air when motivated. Got this little arm/appendage on it's belly... looks like a tiny little horn if you have 15-30x magnification to view... another way for you to tell if they are in fact springtails.

Kinda curious, so keep us posted! ;-))

 

[Toes]

How's the sitch with your pests??

 

[Duder]

Hey quick update. After the flush, I went a few days not using the azatrol. Seemed fine, and then yesterday I spotted a couple, but really couldnt tell if they were the old dead or new ones. So I added a small dose to the res as a precautionary measure and will just keep it in there until final flush.

I dont have a cam or magnifying device to really see what they look like. Still waiting on my tanglefoot to apply to the base. Thats pretty much it. Not sure what else I can really do at this point? I've made sure everything is clean and making sure it stays that way.

 

[mastacheeser]

keep on it
aphids climb up the stems too so thats a two for one with the tanglefoot