Decarb Failed - Can I salvage anything from butter?

[BB22]

Personally, I make tinctures. They are a happy medium. It takes 25-30 minutes before one can feel a sort of wave crashing over the brain, and it sticks with you for about 5-7 hours. It's completely possible to wake up exactly as stoned as I was when I fell asleep. And an ounce of weed made into a tincture can last a month or more. Where I was smoking a quarter pound per week when I consumed weed that way exclusively. Much, much more economical.

Not to mention that tinctures (alcohol based, because cannabutter, canna oil, and dab wax are ALSO types of tinctures) can be aged like wine, and kept forever, as long as you store them in amber glass, and keep them refrigerated. They get more potent over time.

And even though I am brand new to growing, I have been a stoner since 1982. And I have been an RN since 1994. No stranger to either THC, or the science behind it!

If you’re willing to share, I’m very interested in your tincture process. Thanks.

 

[Zatoichi]

I never got why people eat it I have tried didn't do shit to me like smoking it

Then you did it wrong. Made cannabutter from bud trim I would normally throw out. One cookie and started zig zag walking and crawled to bed and tripped for hours. Not pleasant trip like shrooms, but just wishing it was over.

 

[Oldchucky]

Anyways add it to some cakes and bake them outa work

Get a new oven or you’ll be trying to salvage the brownies!

 

[budsofgeorgia]

Then you did it wrong. Made cannabutter from bud trim I would normally throw out. One cookie and started zig zag walking and crawled to bed and tripped for hours. Not pleasant trip like shrooms, but just wishing it was over.

maybe you just have a very low tolerance close to a baby

 

[Misanthrope]

I never got why people eat it I have tried didn't do shit to me like smoking it

I was the same with purchased edibles, especially ones with just THC. Making my own is cheaper and full of all cannabinoids, not just THC. I still need at least ~350mg for a buzz, +500mg to get stoned and over 1000mg to get wrecked (calculated using an average THC content of 20%)
If I were to smoke 300mg, say a 1.5g joint, i would be high as a mountain goat but eating it takes more. I blame my liver but it does such a good job with alcohol that it's hard to stay mad

 

[Misanthrope]

I quit smoking it after I tried vaping. My lungs feel so much better.

We don't use it for edibles. Instead, we make tinctures. It's amazing how high I can get from a tincture and how long it can last. I was getting too stoned for comfort sometimes. So, we started testing each new batch. The first thing we do is take a half milligram dose and rate it for strength. That way, I don't get too high.

Do you prepare the tincture with 100% ethanol? Sadly not available in the People's Republic of Ontario. Can't even get 90%, I think the highest available is like 50% and it would be too expensive like any liquor in Canada.

 

[Oldchucky]

Everclear isn’t cheap here in the US either! can’t even buy it in California! I had some guy passing through Oregon pick me up a fifth! I think it was close to 25 bucks

 

[Oldchucky]

And I’ve replaced several elements on my old beater of a stove/oven! But the fucker is dead nuts on temperature wise!

 

[PianoStan]

If you’re willing to share, I’m very interested in your tincture process. Thanks.

Sure thing. Honestly, it's not even complicated.
It all starts with knowing the strength of the weed that you have. Weed that is 20% THC has 200mg of THC per gram. 10% has 100mg/g, and 30% has 300mg/g. I'm sure that most people know that, but I'm throwing it out there anyway. If you aren't sure what strength the weed that you have is, 20% is a good guess. (Especially if it's reasonably good bud) While there are strains as low as 10% and some claims of 45%+, the overwhelming majority of strains commonly available contain between 18-22%. With 20% being right in the middle. It's not perfect, but with varying degrees of legality around the world, some people will need to accept fuzzy math rather than hard numbers.

The second step is determining how you plan to use the tincture. Are you making a preparation that is truly medicinal so that you can treat depression, insomnia, or some other legitimate medical need, or; are you looking to party balls all night long? For an actual medicinal strength tincture, one should keep the dosage fairly low. 5-10mg/ml is just about perfect. (Many people claim that the reason that the states choose 5-10mg as a therapeutic dose is arbitrary. Except it's not. As demonstrated in my earlier post, when smoking weed 5-10mg is about the best a person can hope for.)

For partying purposes I go more towards a 20mg/ml tincture strength.

Before I even began the first tincture, I purchased (12) 4oz amber glass bottles with a 1ml dropper top. (Washed and boiled them to get them as sterile as possible.) Light degrades THC over time, so just storing in glass isn't enough. Amber glass prevents loss of THC from light exposure.

When it comes to making tincture itself, I have an 'Ardent' de-carb machine. (The one that can de-carb a quarter pound at a time), and an 'Ongrok' tincture making machine.

And the only other item needed to get under way was a sufficient amount of grain alcohol. (I use 190 Everclear, but that's just for sentimentality, any grain alcohol will do, but the higher the proof, the better the tincture)

Also, before getting going, choosing the right weed is essential. If you're trying to treat insomnia, an energy inspiring Sativa is probably a poor choice. And vice-versa. You probably don't want a couch locking Indica if you are planning to dance the night away. And something that tastes nice is always a bonus. Thankfully, there is no shortage of varieties and flavors.

1. De-carb the weed, and let it cool down.
2. Determine how much grain alcohol is needed. A 10mg/ml tincture for medicinal use would require roughly 18-19oz of grain alcohol with 1oz of de-carbed 20% weed. A 20mg/ml tincture for partying purposes would require 9-10oz of grain alcohol per 1oz of de-carbed 20% weed. Different people with different needs will have to do some math for this part. ((The number of mg x the number of grams) will give the total number of mg. Then (that total divided by the strength (10mg/ml, 20mg/ml, or whatever number the user decides)). This determines the number of ml of grain alcohol needed. (Total ml of grain alcohol needed divided by 30) Gives the number of ounces of grain alcohol needed. Not strictly necessary, but in case people want that number. So, an example: 20% weed x 28 grams = 5600mg THC/oz. 5600mg/20mg/ml = 280ml of grain alcohol needed. 280ml/30ml = 9.33333 oz of grain alcohol.
3. I put the de-carbed weed and grain alcohol into the Ongrok machine, push the "4 hours/tincture" button, and then wait. After it's finished, I let it all cool down, pass it through a 90 micron filter, bottle it up, and refrigerate it immediately.

From there it depends on the user's own needs/wants. For someone looking to treat depression on their own, I would suggest the 10mg/ml strength but to start with 0.5 ml in 4oz of juice or kool-aid (my personal choice) every 4-6 hours and see how it goes. If a medicinal user wants to get really fancy, multiple tinctures from a variety of plants. A sativa dominant energizer when waking up, a neutral hybrid towards afternoon, a couch locking Indica towards bedtime can keep you medicated throughout the day without disturbing sleep patterns too much.

For partiers, I would suggest the 20mg/ml and start out with 1.5ml in 4oz of juice or kool-aid, and wait a bare minimum of 45 minutes before considering adding more into their body. It all depends on whether you want to get high, or emulate John Belushi.

And nobody NEEDS to use specialized machines to make a tincture. You can certainly de-carb the weed in the oven, and cook the tincture on your stove top. Although, make sure that there is plenty of air circulation if you do. Grain alcohol fumes can become rather explosive when allowed to build up in an enclosed space. My stove is gas burning, and it just seemed more prudent to not risk things. Not to mention that the Ongrok machine has serrated knife blades on its spindle. It absolutely pulverizes the weed into sub 90 micron particles guaranteeing a potent solution. I've never had more than 6 grams of mushy waste left over from turning an ounce of weed into a tincture.

Because everybody is unique, and their digestive system is more or less efficient due to personal health issues, their overall fitness level, what they ate, how much they ate, how recently they ate; there isn't really a definitive one size fits all dose. But a couple of attempts by an experienced user will quickly let them dial in just exactly how much they need or want to get the desired results.

The truth is, that I don't do anything really special or difficult to obtain my results. I just started out by researching the pharmicodynamics of THC and its metabolization rates. With a career of figuring out proper dosages for medications the rest was easy.

I decided on alcohol based tinctures rather than canna-butters or canna-oils because I can turn my tincture into canna-butter or oil by simply pouring it into those mediums, and cooking off the alcohol. But I can also make canna-sugar, canna-flour, and virtually any other ingredient "canna" by simply combining the two and simply letting the alcohol evaporate over time.

This allows me total control over the strength of any product that I make. Anything from barely high anti-depressants all the way to hospitalization level doses. I don't see the point in making anything even close to that strength, but to each their own.

One final thought: There is a semi-famous quote from Snoop Dogg. He said, "Man, I don't fuck with no edibles. Cuz they ain't got no off switch." And that is 100% true. Once the THC is in your blood stream, it is there until it is metabolized. So if a person doesn't know what they are doing, it's better to start off low and slow. You can always take more later, or increase the dose for the next time. However, if you jump straight in and take 150-200mg, and suddenly find yourself dizzy, diaphoretic, and having chest pains it's too late to do anything about it except endure. Even going to the hospital is of limited usefulness. While they can make sure you're not having a heart attack, they can't do much beyond babysitting you while you come down.

I hope that this lengthy post was helpful

 

[PianoStan]

I was the same with purchased edibles, especially ones with just THC. Making my own is cheaper and full of all cannabinoids, not just THC. I still need at least ~350mg for a buzz, +500mg to get stoned and over 1000mg to get wrecked (calculated using an average THC content of 20%)
If I were to smoke 300mg, say a 1.5g joint, i would be high as a mountain goat but eating it takes more. I blame my liver but it does such a good job with alcohol that it's hard to stay mad

A bit more fuzzy math:
First of all, what type of alcohol are you using to make the tincture? The higher the proof, the better the tincture. The THC and other cannabinoids bind to the alcohol molecules. So if your "alcohol" is 50-60% water, you are robbing yourself of potency. And potentially a MAJOR reason for why you are reporting those numbers for an edible getting you high.

Second, if you smoke 300mg (a 1.5 gram joint) you will only actually get between 9-27mg of psychoactive THC in the end. (Probably closer to the middle since the far ends represent the best and worst possible scenarios). There's simply no way that 15-20mg of smoked THC needs to be replaced by 350-1200mg of edible THC (61.6-259.2mg THC psychoactively available). Worst case scenario from edibles being more than 3 times the amount that the best case scenario from smoking can provide. This is another indication of your tincture being diluted and weak.

Third, when smoking weed, the average time to peak plasma concentration is a mere 52 seconds. With an average 4.5 hour duration. Edibles can vary in the time for onset of effects. Tinctures are faster than edibles like brownies. But even tinctures can take 1.5-2.5 hours for peak plasma concentration to be achieved. And then lasting 6-10 hours. If you smoke or vape in the interim, you will only end up masking the onset of the edible's effects.

Finally, and this is a rhetorical question, but do you take other drugs/medications routinely? It's none of my business, and I'm not asking you to out yourself as a heroin junkie or anything. However, even prescription pain meds, or other truly medicinal pharmaceuticals can have major impacts on uptake times, metabolic rates, and other variable factors. Nobody can test for the millions of potential drug combination interactions. It's one of the most frustrating parts of treating the human body. And it always needs to be considered when dealing with unusual reports concerning medication dosages.

 

[BB22]

@PianoStan thank you very much. That was an extremely informative post.

I hear you on the once it’s in your system, It’s too late. I’ve been on some rides

I’m backing off the edibles. I find them too difficult to regulate.

Thanks again

 

[PianoStan]

@PianoStan thank you very much. That was an extremely informative post.

I hear you on the once it’s in your system, It’s too late. I’ve been on some rides

I’m backing off the edibles. I find them too difficult to regulate.

Thanks again

If you follow my advice, those tincture recipes are super easy to regulate. The problem comes when using someone else's edibles. You have no idea what they used, how much they used, and what kind they used. If you make them yourself, you have absolute control over every aspect.

If you find commercially available edibles too potent, that's because they usually are. As an example, where I live, the Jolly Rancher edibles are easy to obtain. The bags usually found have 4 pieces, and a total of 500mg of THC. That's 125mg per piece. Most people look at those tiny bags, see only 4 pieces, and assume that it is a single serving bag. After the fact, they are typically, "Oh, no, I don't want to do edibles anymore!"

If you follow my directions for making a 20mg/ml tincture, you can easily decide if you want to consume 10mg or 200mg. You know exactly what ingredients are in the product. You know exactly how it's been handled and stored. You know within a reasonable certainty what type of weed was used. Depending on whether or no you grow it. Dealers can't be trusted to tell you the truth, they are more interested in making a sale than they are in getting you the perfect product.

It's certainly your decision as to whether or not to make/consume edibles. But it's nowhere near as daunting as it can first appear.

 

[BB22]

Yes, sir, i’ve made some butter and I’ve made a tincture a while back with some Everclear, mason jar, freezing shake, evaporate. I just need to refine the process a little bit. That’s why I was interested in how you do it.

I live in an area where everything cannabis related I have to grow and make myself. Unless I want some of that crappy “Delta whatever it is “ they sell the gas station. Lol

Thanks again

 

[Oldchucky]

Speaking strictly for myself, I think that you are missing out if you don’t get into the world of making homemade edibles! I think they Can take you to the next level of stonedness, for lack of a better term, then I’ve been able to achieve by smoking it, or vaping it! Burning one is fine for going out for a walk or something like that! But if I really want to get catatonic on the couch, and watch 15 episodes of cops that I have recorded, the only way I get there is to break into the brownies! and it’s not hard to achieve a consistent results when you’re using your own product and recipe! Just another opinion from an old stoner!

 

[Grower1974]

My gummies rock every one who consumes them. A mere 17-18mg per piece. I have clients telling me my gummies have to be closer to 40mg. Guess what pal, they aren’t. Most commercial stuff is fucking rubbish. Marketing with commercial cannabis sucks in the most ignorant crowds.

Don’t use trim for edibles if you want any kind of consistency. You’ll never know the potency of your final product and it will be less potent than what you estimate guaranteed.

The decarb and infusion is the most important part of keeping THC efficiency at its highest.

 

[Lexstar66]

You must have eaten some edibles made by people that had no idea what they were doing.
ALL weed needs to be de-carbed before it becomes psychoactive. The question is whether you de-carb it slowly in an oven of specialized machine at around 250 degrees, or whether you use the 1300 degree flame of your lighter to do it.

If you use your lighter, the accepted scientific standard is that joints/blunts lose 50% of the THC to destruction from the heat. While bowls/bongs lose 60% to heat. Then, depending on how big of a hit you take, how long you hold it, and how efficient your lungs actually are, another 40-60% of the THC you inhale is sent back into the atmosphere when you exhale. Of the THC that actually hits your blood stream, daily users can get 22-27% of that to be psychoactively available. While first time and casual users can get between 25-33%. What all of that complex math equates to is that for every 100mg THC that you set on fire, somewhere between 2.8-9mg actually ends up affecting your brain. (With casuals getting up to nearly 15mg)

Much like smoking crack, the onset of consuming THC through smoking is nearly instantaneous, with a mean time of metabolization being 4.5 hours. Whereas consuming THC through edibles is more akin to taking LSD with a 45minute to 1 hour onset, and a metaboliztion time of more than 8 hours.

On the other hand, for properly prepared edibles, there is no loss of THC to the heat or to the atmosphere. And while everyone is a unique biological entity, making exact dosages difficult to monitor, the absorption rate is at least 80%. Ultimately that means that edibles can deliver 17.6-21.6 mg per 100mg consumed for daily users, and casuals getting between 20-26.4 mg.

That's why edibles are driving up the number of hospital visits. People consume entire bags of edibles when they have no actual understanding of just how much more potent edible THC is. Many of those bags of edibles contain enough THC to get 8-10 people baked for an entire night out, but people eat them like they are potato chips.

I find that most long time stoners don't want to wait the time it takes for an edible to kick in, so they smoke while they wait. Which, of course, means that they are already high by the time the edible kicks in, and fail to notice it happening. Then, they get tired over the 4.5 or so hours it takes to metabolize the smoked THC, and sleep through most of the edible THC's life cycle.

Personally, I make tinctures. They are a happy medium. It takes 25-30 minutes before one can feel a sort of wave crashing over the brain, and it sticks with you for about 5-7 hours. It's completely possible to wake up exactly as stoned as I was when I fell asleep. And an ounce of weed made into a tincture can last a month or more. Where I was smoking a quarter pound per week when I consumed weed that way exclusively. Much, much more economical.

Not to mention that tinctures (alcohol based, because cannabutter, canna oil, and dab wax are ALSO types of tinctures) can be aged like wine, and kept forever, as long as you store them in amber glass, and keep them refrigerated. They get more potent over time.

And even though I am brand new to growing, I have been a stoner since 1982. And I have been an RN since 1994. No stranger to either THC, or the science behind it!

Do you make RSO? It Is the best. A 1/2 size of a grain of rice under your tongue will do the trick. The effects of the weed is hugely magnified and last most of the day. I love it.

 

[Budclarkson]

Won’t it decarb if you use it to make brownies at 350° for 35 minutes?

@PianoStan also, the wife says back in the day they just tossed the weed in the brownie mix and walah potent weed brownies. No prebake decarb etc

Can I do this old method and forget about the canna oil and butter effort? How much cured unprocessed weed should I be tossing into a brownie or cookie mix? THC levels on the Autos we grew are around 15% so they claim. I don’t want to overdue it and make it very strong.

BTW what are the recommended step by step processes for decarb and making butter, oil, and tincture. Could use some good links to reliable methods.

I challenged the wife to her old school brownie method vs a modern decarb method bake off

 

[PianoStan]

Yes, sir, i’ve made some butter and I’ve made a tincture a while back with some Everclear, mason jar, freezing shake, evaporate. I just need to refine the process a little bit. That’s why I was interested in how you do it.

I live in an area where everything cannabis related I have to grow and make myself. Unless I want some of that crappy “Delta whatever it is “ they sell the gas station. Lol

Thanks again

The mason jar/freezing method will certainly get you high. I have done that with some Paul Mason for a friend. I infused 1 pint of Paul Mason with a half ounce of some low strength homegrown that he had been given. He could barely stand up when he consumed it. I can't imagine doing shots of Everclear infused with it.

Honestly, though, it makes a poor tincture. That method simply washes the THC off of the leaves where it's easy to reach. Much of the good stuff is left inside the plant. If you continue to use that method, make sure to save the weed that is left over. You could make butter or oil with it. Or, you could make a pot of spaghetti sauce, and toss the weed in. A dinner party for your friends, or you could freeze it into individual servings and stay stoned for several evenings. (Depending on how much weed you use in the tincture)

Cooking tincture on the stove top will result in a stronger tincture. But still not optimum. The heat will penetrate the flower better and extract more THC, but it will still leave behind a sizable amount in the weed itself. That combined with the potential for fire, explosion, and/or serious injury make that a sub-optimal way to go about it. If I absolutely had to use this method, I would try to pulverize the weed into as fine a powder as possible. That would increase the surface area for the alcohol to reach, and get the most potent extraction possible. (After de-carbing of course. Once the weed has been de-carbed, the THC is a much more stable molecule)

The tincture machines (available at a certain online retailer that I compare to Lord Voldemort ) are the best option. They pulverize the weed into small enough particles that it is able to permeate the cell membrane. At least the machine that I use does, I can't speak for all of them. This gives you maximum potency, with minimal risks, and total laziness. There is very little waste. The only side effect is a pale green urine from the plant material coursing through my blood stream. Well that, as well as the effect of never coming down unless I choose to.

 

[PianoStan]

Speaking strictly for myself, I think that you are missing out if you don’t get into the world of making homemade edibles! I think they Can take you to the next level of stonedness, for lack of a better term, then I’ve been able to achieve by smoking it, or vaping it! Burning one is fine for going out for a walk or something like that! But if I really want to get catatonic on the couch, and watch 15 episodes of cops that I have recorded, the only way I get there is to break into the brownies! and it’s not hard to achieve a consistent results when you’re using your own product and recipe! Just another opinion from an old stoner!

I've been getting high since 1982. All that time the drug education programs in school and college kept saying that "marijuana is a hallucinogen." My response was, "Apparently you've never smoked weed."

Then I eventually made the tincture. And I went on a kick of adding THC to everything that I made to eat and drink.

I got myself high enough that the walls almost melted. It was seriously like those final 15 minutes before you start peaking on LSD. And I finally came to believe that marijuana indeed can be a hallucinogen.

 

[PianoStan]

My gummies rock every one who consumes them. A mere 17-18mg per piece. I have clients telling me my gummies have to be closer to 40mg. Guess what pal, they aren’t. Most commercial stuff is fucking rubbish. Marketing with commercial cannabis sucks in the most ignorant crowds.

Don’t use trim for edibles if you want any kind of consistency. You’ll never know the potency of your final product and it will be less potent than what you estimate guaranteed.

The decarb and infusion is the most important part of keeping THC efficiency at its highest.

Absolutely right. Decarb and preparing an infusion don't have to be difficult either. As with most recipes, starting with quality ingredients and giving them the proper care will result in a potent and quality product in the end.