Trouble in paradise: Planet of the Grapes clone showing deficiencies

[sp838]

Hello all. Almost a month in since I brought my PoG clone home from 420 festivities. Transplanted into a one gallon pot, she really responded well and seems pretty happy overall. Responded really well to LST.

The bad news is, she's now showing signs of deficiency(ies) I didn't feed her for the first couple weeks because I didn't want to burn her little roots after transplanting, but maybe that wasn't necessary?

Over the last couple weeks I slowly started to add veg nutes, and while she's growing well, the leaves are definitely showing something's wrong.

She's in 1 gallon of ProMix HP with a couple tablespoons dolomite lime, and I'm using Fox Farm nutes with a little added Cal Mag. Using FOOP ph up and down to keep watering PH in the 6.5-7 range. Runoff is consistent with what's going in... Wondering if maybe she is already ready to be put in a bigger pot, when she's nice and dry (that will be this afternoon) I'll open up the pot to look (it's a vivosun pot with the velcro closure on the side, pretty neat...)

In addition to discoloration I'm noticing some of the nee growth only has three fingers, and even found one leaf that has four.

Photos below, any insights and suggestions greatly appreciated. She's been very hardy and vigorous, don't want to let this get any worse

 

[Trash_2002]

looks like tobacco mosaic virus, some cultivars don't like it at all. other live with it without problem, if you have one plant of that cultivar without the problem you can clone it with a sterilized scissor and you will get rid of it.. if you use a scissor that cutted a clone of a plant with the virus and than cut another one that doesn't have it you risk passing it on to the next plant.

virus cannot be resolved any other way, just cutting a clone from a plant that doesn't have it of the same keeper cultivar, or by tissue culture propagation.

 

[sp838]

Wow, fascinating, thanks for the reply. Did some googling and there's a company called Agdia that makes test strips to test for TMV. Not cheap at $17 a pop ($65 for a kit of 5 strips plus shipping...)

Is TMV a death sentence for the plant or will it just grow ugly? Any chance it could be something more common/treatable?

Thanks again!

 

[sp838]

Well, just ordered a test kit which should be here next week, hopefully the plant just keeps on keeping on until then.

Will be watering / feeding this afternoon with full strength Fox Farm veg nutrients plus cal mag and some additional epsom. Was reading elsewhere that magnesium can help with TMV...

We'll know either way! Would appreciate any other opinions!

 

[Trash_2002]

Wow, fascinating, thanks for the reply. Did some googling and there's a company called Agdia that makes test strips to test for TMV. Not cheap at $17 a pop ($65 for a kit of 5 strips plus shipping...)

Is TMV a death sentence for the plant or will it just grow ugly? Any chance it could be something more common/treatable?

Thanks again!

nope most cultivars doesn't bother too much with TMV only some odd ones will react more heavily to it, no death sentence at all.

sometimes PH drifting can cause rugosity on leaves but its doesn't look like to be it. 99% sure its TMV.

 

[Trash_2002]

the problem tho is when you clone the one with mosaic (i would advice against it), you can pass to other strains without it when you clone them.

there's also the odd times when TMV just visually vanish from the plant when it flowers (no new leaves with it other than the ones that already had it) , but get back when clones token from it start vegging , ive seen it happen 2 times in the last 2 decades lol
its a weird Virus.
pretty common with outdoor crops.

 

[sp838]

Ok sounds good... The plant looks pretty healthy otherwise. Will keep an eye on it and will know for sure once I get the test strips. I don't have any other plants going now so not worried about transmission, unless it can hop to my other house plants.

I don't think I'll be taking any clones from this one regardless. It's already a clone to begin with, and from what I've read clones of clones start to become weaker anyway. And who knows if this plant is a clone of a fresh plant or is already a clone of a clone...

Fingers crossed it won't be an issue.

 

[Trash_2002]

Ok sounds good... The plant looks pretty healthy otherwise. Will keep an eye on it and will know for sure once I get the test strips. I don't have any other plants going now so not worried about transmission, unless it can hop to my other house plants.

I don't think I'll be taking any clones from this one regardless. It's already a clone to begin with, and from what I've read clones of clones start to become weaker anyway. And who knows if this plant is a clone of a fresh plant or is already a clone of a clone...

Fingers crossed it won't be an issue.

Clones doesn't get weaker as generation passes. But some stuff can pass on and be a problem later on tho, like mosaic virus.

 

[sp838]

@Trash_2002 — could this mottling be caused by bugs?? I just discovered that a Thai basil plant I have growing nearby is covered in tiny little white moths...

Could they be the cause?

 

[Lockebox]

@Trash_2002 — could this mottling be caused by bugs?? I just discovered that a Thai basil plant I have growing nearby is covered in tiny little white moths...

Could they be the cause?

Looking at the 3d pic I'd go with bugs over TMV.

Have you scoped the plant in question?

I don't have much experience in the field but I would scope the underside of the affected leaves and check out the petioles

 

[sp838]

I'll take a closer look. In the meantime I ordered some neem oil spray and moved the Thai basil into another room.

 

[Trash_2002]

The only bug i know that can do "similar" damage would be broad and russet mites, but they are agressive as hell, doesn't look like to be it tho, and it looks different in general.

Edit : severe ph drifts can cause leaves to have ruggosity like that sometimes.

But surely inspect with a magnifying glass the under side of the leaves and etc.

 

[alpha.ganjaguy]

I have seen clones do this before, it was probably left in a cloner for far too long at too high of a rh, it should grow out of it.

No disrespect to anyone but it is highly unlikely to be tmv, to my knowledge there has never been a documented case of cannabis with tmv. Some places that discuss is even mention that "there is actually zero scientific evidence to prove that cannabis plants can even be infected with TMV"

Understanding Tobacco Mosaic Virus Risks for Cannabis

Many cannabis growers suspect Tobacco Mosaic Virus in plants that develop a mosaic-like pattern of discoloration on the leaves.

medicinalgenomics.com

 

[sp838]

Super thankful for everyone's help. Some day I hope to have enough experience to be able to help out too...

Should have both the neem and the TMV tests tomorrow, you guys are the best.

 

[Oldchucky]

I think I would add 1 teaspoon of unscented Epsom salt to my water. And water with that for a few weeks. It might help. Just two. Cents. Per gallon. That’s always the first thing I try and sometimes it helps.

 

[sp838]

I fed her today and did exactly that!

added to 1 gallon dechlorinated tap: 1tsp epsom, 3ml cal mag, 7ml fox farm #1, 30ml fox farm #2, and .9ml Foop ph down (phosphoric acid)

Ph'ed to 6.5, runoff was identical...

 

[Trash_2002]

I have seen clones do this before, it was probably left in a cloner for far too long at too high of a rh, it should grow out of it.

No disrespect to anyone but it is highly unlikely to be tmv, to my knowledge there has never been a documented case of cannabis with tmv. Some places that discuss is even mention that "there is actually zero scientific evidence to prove that cannabis plants can even be infected with TMV"

Understanding Tobacco Mosaic Virus Risks for Cannabis

Many cannabis growers suspect Tobacco Mosaic Virus in plants that develop a mosaic-like pattern of discoloration on the leaves.

medicinalgenomics.com

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/farming-natural-resources-and-industry/agriculture-and-seafood/animal-and-crops/plant-health/diseases_of_cannabis_in_british_columbia.pdf

Canada gov research
"However, samples recently diagnosed using molecular approaches confirm that Tobacco mosaic virus, Cucumber mosaic virus and Alfalfa mosaic virus are present in cannabis plants in B.C. "


@sp838
Btw what we see here in this thread may! not be mosaic, it misses some of the classic visual characteristics of TMV, but I've had it before more than once and it can show itself like that, only chlorotic leaves with no yellow/green division patches in the leaves. Like a pesticide reaction during lights on etc, but it passed on to clones took from that plant. It's a really weird virus as I said before.

 

[sp838]

Who knows (yet), it might be "all of the above"! lol

Definitely learning a lot in the process, can't hurt to have the test strips and some neem spray. And I think she appreciates finally being fed completely. Will update when I have more to share!

 

[Sunasun]

How much dolomite lime did you add? Maybe your soil pH is too high from too much of it.

 

[sp838]

That's a good question – I'll check the soil ph. If I remember correctly I added about two tablespoons to the 1 gallon pot. I forgot to add it to the soil so I sprinkled it on top and watered it in. (I've since started to write down everything I do so that I have a record of waterings / feedings / foliar spray / LST interventions, but when I potted it and for the first couple weeks I didn't write anything down...)