Air LPM and Nute GPH needed per bucket

[Lost]

What are the baseline numbers for when designing a MPB system.

Example:

20 LMP of air per bucket
300 GPH nute pump (add 50 to this for drip)

So basically for a 4 bucket setup, you would want 80 LPM (Liters per minute), so a high-blo 80 or basically a 80 LPM air pump (Alita 80IL, Pondmaster AP-80, etc..)..

And around 1200-1500 GPH for nute flow and drippers if you are running them off of the same line.



This is actually what I am running almost.. Im using a 1150 mag pump and a Hailea high-blo 80.

Im thinking that 30 LPM and 400 GPH would be what I design my next system around..

Thoughts? Experience? I think this will help alot of people out setting baselines so people know what they really need to play.

 

[Lost]

One thing to keep in mind, and I totally neglected to mention bucket gallons/liters. This would be the volume when full to the drains. The bins im using full are about 20 gallons.

 

[OregonMeds]

I've asked for this info before and gotten squat.
I think the answer now if you want anything more on this is to wait and buy the book or dvd or whatever..

All free info is fading fast and dd seems to be no longer helping. (NDA maybe who knows but this pisses me off)
:mad0233:

So far nobody has said anything about what the actual gpm water flow is measured on a working system with an 1800 danner/5 bins/same feed lines in every respect.

dd's small feed lines don't conform to what you should have for 1800gpm if you look at a chart, not that there's anything wrong with that because he has to balance the flow anyway with the valves so there will be loss regardless and that's just life but I'm just saying I think his plumbing limits the flow severely so I'd put money down saying the actual numbers are much lower than anyone would think.

 

[Lost]

OM - This is why I wanted to get a discussion going about this. This is the bottom line with building MPB's, getting the right flow and air. OM I would say that on a 1200 gph 4 tub system, you are licky to put out 900 gph actual and that is fine. You just need to keep it in mind. I can say with 1 1/4 drains the fax flow rate of the buckets are around 750-900 gph, but dd's system will not handle that, and it does not need to really. I ran a recirc tub system that was using a 500 gph pump and was probablly getting 400 after losses. In a single tub 400 gph was CRAZY! Probablly not necessary, I needed more air at that point.

I don't think its a worthwile exercise to try to calculate flow restrictions and such. I think the easiest way to figure it is to just figure out what size pump you need for a certain number of tubs, and forget trying to calculate flow rates.

Obviously there is a point of diminishing returns. I don't think 750 gph is going to offer much more than 400 gph. Air, more will always be better..

What is a concensus on pump size per bucket? I think for design 300 to 350 is a good jumping off point?

 

[OregonMeds]

Yea I wanted the numbers though so I could translate things for an external Iwaki pump or similar and play with some other ideas on paper first.

I have thoughts of some high pressure aero plans in the future also, just to compare some other ideas and thought if I could find the right mix of pressure and flow maybe just maybe I could use one pump for a variety of tests.

 

[noone88]

We need to consolidate all the doubleds tub information into one thread. Everyone has modified it slightly whenever they ran it.

 

[Apache69]

Awesome Discussion! I am getting ready to kick off a 3 plant grow, so this is giving some of the answers I have been looking for or at least I know others are wondering the same thing.

 

[yayarea]

In the DIY thread dd says a 1800gph pump for 5 plants. And a Hiblow 80 would do 10 plants.

So that would be 360GPH and 8LPM per tub.

Base your numbers off of that. I know the flow will not be the same as his when everyone is using different size tubs for their plants, his tubs are 15gallons, and it seems like most are going with the homedepot 27 gallon tubs.

I thought about going bigger on this and bigger on that but if shit starts going wrong I wont know where to trouble shoot cause I have created a whole new system not a Doublelds MPB.

But if one of you guys come up wit something better, I will be on that, but for now Im keeping it simple plus Ive never seen 3 to 4 pound trees indoors until this MPB came along.

 

[Lost]

We need to consolidate all the doubleds tub information into one thread. Everyone has modified it slightly whenever they ran it.

Agreed, but I think first we need to come to a consensus based on people that have experienced. Since we cannot rely on DD's years of experience we need to be able say based on current people's experience, this is what seems to work.

It does seem that before DD's went on lockdown, he was all for the larger resses and I think the 27 gallon resses people have been using are spot on. They could not be better unless they were square, imo. These give about 20 gallon nute capicity if you try to maximise nute level.

Based on that size rez what are we looking at? (i think 10 gallon capicity?)

Based on DD's original setup what are we looking at?

I do think that the larger trees are the way to go. In my size experiment, the tree's buds are much larger, not just being more budsites, but more LARGER budsites.

My .02 is that the 6 week veg 5-6 foot tree with 1500 hps'esess are going to be the 5-7 lbs trees of the future....

:rasta2:

 

[bakershredhead]

Same as with purchasing a chiller. You want to oversize the pump quite a bit. All the gph manufactures give is with zero height length. In this system you don't want not enought and I don't think it's possible to have to much as long as your drains can handle it. You can always adjust the flow if needed with valves. I found a sump pump 1/2 horse that said it did 3500 gph. It was only 127 so I figured why not. I've got it on 6 tubs and it literally drains 50 gl of water in about 10 seconds. I've got a Danner 1800 on 4 tubs and it definetely seems like enough also. So I would say 400 to 500 gph per bucket. On the blower I don't know I've got a regen so it is more than enough. Cheaper than two of the high blow 80's I believe but it is louder.

 

[OregonMeds]

Agreed, but I think first we need to come to a consensus based on people that have experienced. Since we cannot rely on DD's years of experience we need to be able say based on current people's experience, this is what seems to work.

It does seem that before DD's went on lockdown, he was all for the larger resses and I think the 27 gallon resses people have been using are spot on. They could not be better unless they were square, imo. These give about 20 gallon nute capicity if you try to maximise nute level.

Based on that size rez what are we looking at? (i think 10 gallon capicity?)

Based on DD's original setup what are we looking at?

I do think that the larger trees are the way to go. In my size experiment, the tree's buds are much larger, not just being more budsites, but more LARGER budsites.

My .02 is that the 6 week veg 5-6 foot tree with 1500 hps'esess are going to be the 5-7 lbs trees of the future....

:rasta2:

Good predictions, I'll bet everything you said is correct except round containers may work slightly better than square given the right arrangement of water and airflow.
Corners can't be ideal, not logical unless splashing uneven sloshing is more ideal than even flow, but still that could be beaten.


And there probably is a limit to size/return on investment/stretching air and water flow thinner and thinner or requiring more and more nutes and resources etc.

I would chop a 55 gallon barrel or larger down to the right height and volume and start there with the 1500's. If I weren't a broke ass nobody, and could actually afford such things... The power bill...

I would also predict people will be throwing some insane size systems at plants lights and rooms that could never use them at all even best case scenario.(yea duh stating the obvious but just wait, we'll see some seriously laughable ratios of light to bin sizes for sure and I pity the fool who is about to try 1500's under 7' ceilings. I hope they plan ahead and take the floor or ceiling out of the room first so the big trees can even fit.)

 

[OregonMeds]

I found a sump pump 1/2 horse that said it did 3500 gph. It was only 127 so I figured why not. I've got it on 6 tubs and it literally drains 50 gl of water in about 10 seconds.

:character0180:

Btw great info thanks, missed it the first time I read responses. If only chillers were free where I come from. :)
:sun2:

 

[yayarea]

DD SAYS FROM DIY THREAD:

"my system / each mini res has 20l/5gallons of water. You should do fine with what you got. The reason i use such large mini res's is i dont want to restrict the "drip line" of the plant and restrict the roots"

Hey Lost I feel you on the 27gallon tubs, when dd said he has about 5gallons in his mini res I was thinking about those tubs stacked to the ceiling at homedepot. Plus they were much cheaper and I had a shit load of homedepot credit.

This is what I am thinking Lost , dd has 360gph and 8lpm for the 5gallons of nute in his mini res. And you said there's about 20gallons in your homedepot tub so for that 20gallons based on his numbers that would be
1440gph and 32lpm for the homedepot res. That sound like alot but is it overkill? Maybe Im thinking about it all wrong! Kinda glad Im just setting up my veg setup maybe by the time I need to go into flower there will be some numbers figured out already.

Hey lost, dizzle, lost u say you are using a hiblow80 and it looks like dizzle is using a activeaqua 110lpm besides the considerable difference in price what is the difference in performance. I can get the activeaqua for $60 and its 10minutes from my spot.

Oregon I got a friend whos making an undercurrent out of the same cut 50gallon res's your talking about, he got them really cheap on craigslist out here in the bayarea. Just another idea for me to stress about.

 

[yayarea]

Hey lost is that 10 for 20 gallons in you res when running?

 

[Lost]

10 might be a little low, I dunno where the bottom is.. Im running 20 lpm currently and I think that that is a good jumping off point for the buckets. I do think 30 or lpm would be better, but thats super aggressive. As for nute flow, i would think 400 gph would be plenty?

BTW - Im using a hailea 80 pump. I ordered a ap-100 but got this instead. Its rebuildable so that was cool...

 

[OregonMeds]

DD SAYS FROM DIY THREAD:

"my system / each mini res has 20l/5gallons of water. You should do fine with what you got. The reason i use such large mini res's is i dont want to restrict the "drip line" of the plant and restrict the roots"

Hey Lost I feel you on the 27gallon tubs, when dd said he has about 5gallons in his mini res I was thinking about those tubs stacked to the ceiling at homedepot. Plus they were much cheaper and I had a shit load of homedepot credit.

This is what I am thinking Lost , dd has 360gph and 8lpm for the 5gallons of nute in his mini res. And you said there's about 20gallons in your homedepot tub so for that 20gallons based on his numbers that would be
1440gph and 32lpm for the homedepot res. That sound like alot but is it overkill? Maybe Im thinking about it all wrong! Kinda glad Im just setting up my veg setup maybe by the time I need to go into flower there will be some numbers figured out already.

Hey lost, dizzle, lost u say you are using a hiblow80 and it looks like dizzle is using a activeaqua 110lpm besides the considerable difference in price what is the difference in performance. I can get the activeaqua for $60 and its 10minutes from my spot.

Oregon I got a friend whos making an undercurrent out of the same cut 50gallon res's your talking about, he got them really cheap on craigslist out here in the bayarea. Just another idea for me to stress about.

Grab the activeaqua pump if noise isn't a concern at that price it's great and yes it will do the job for sure. I have a 70lpm of those and a 80lpm hiblow type and they are comparable aside from noise.
Great deal.