What is your typical yield for an indie plant?

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GNick55

GNick55

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It's ANECDOTAL experience. There are no scientific measurements received. A self reported "study" of one person with no control group. No peer review. No evidence that the issye even exists. And you still don't seem to even be able to consider that YOU might have made an error when making the product. All that I can say is that I'm not clairvoyant. And without the ability to study your results, and attempt to recreate them, I can't possibly answer your scenario.

You're not wrong that when you add something you also have to take something away. At least in most cases. But for the purposes of this conversation, its true enough. But that doesn't mean that you end up with a lesser product. Imagine for a moment that I could offer you a course of medication that would alter your DNA in such a way that you could bench-press a car. But taking the medicine would cause you to lose your appendix. Would you take the deal? Superhuman strength in exchange for an organ that you don't even use? One that can turn traitor and kill you in a matter of days?

Of course you would. You'ld be an idiot NOT to jump at that chance. And of course this hypothetical is ridiculous. But it does illustrate the point. When breeding a plant for increased THC production, the question then becomes what was lost in the process. I can't answer that question. Who had studied the marijuana genome back in the 1950's-1960's when breeders started painting their plants with Colchicine in order to bolster the production of THC?

When exactly were you getting Jamaican bud that was 30-40%? It damn sure wasn't the 80's! There aren't that many strains today that go over 40%. So you were complaining about modern bud in your earlier posts, but claiming modern bud to be in your top 5 highs in this post.
i meant the gum (charas) couldn’t be more than 30-40%, meaning the weed was 15% give or take,..
that weed was nothing special,.
 
LoveGrowingIt

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Genetic researchers believe there are no wild strains of cannabis. All cannabis growing naturally is believed to be feral. That means it is cultivated weed that has returned to nature. Nevertheless, the search for genetically pure strains continues.
 
figolus

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Victoriae mundis et mundis lacrima. Well, it doesn't mean anything, but I think it's pretty in the tone. 🤣🤣🤣🤣😁
 
LoveGrowingIt

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So... While we're discussing potency and tolerance... I have a question.

Is there truth in the belief that partaking of different strains reduces tolerance? I've tried it and it seems to work somewhat like a tolerance break, which is also supposed to reduce tolerance.
 
7munkee

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Genetic researchers believe there are no wild strains of cannabis. All cannabis growing naturally is believed to be feral. That means it is cultivated weed that has returned to nature. Nevertheless, the search for genetically pure strains continues.
I have a dozen or so seeds that are supposed to be Landrace. They come from the Bleida region in Moracco, a hot and dry area. It has been typically used to make hash.
 
LoveGrowingIt

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I have a dozen or so seeds that are supposed to be Landrace. They come from the Bleida region in Moracco, a hot and dry area. It has been typically used to make hash.
Landrace describes a cultivar that has been improved by agricultural methods. I used the words "wild" which means never cultivated, and "feral" which means in a wild state after escape from domestication. It is the wild, never cultivated or bred cannabis that is believed to no longer exist. Evidence suggests that cannabis may be the oldest cultivated crop, beginning more than 4,000 years ago. It spread to the Western Hemisphere in 1545 when Spaniards imported it to Chile for its use as fiber. Genetic research is providing new science regarding the evolutionary history of many species, including cannabis. I expect this type of research to increase significantly if/when cannabis is reclassified here in the U.S.
 
budsofgeorgia

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Landrace describes a cultivar that has been improved by agricultural methods. I used the words "wild" which means never cultivated, and "feral" which means in a wild state after escape from domestication. It is the wild, never cultivated or bred cannabis that is believed to no longer exist. Evidence suggests that cannabis may be the oldest cultivated crop, beginning more than 4,000 years ago. It spread to the Western Hemisphere in 1545 when Spaniards imported it to Chile for its use as fiber. Genetic research is providing new science regarding the evolutionary history of many species, including cannabis. I expect this type of research to increase significantly if/when cannabis is reclassified here in the U.S.
lets say for example you were lost in the amazon rain forest after days and days turns into weeks of walking , and you have not seen or heard another human being , you walk around the corner and you find fine 1 lone cannabis plant would that be the wild strain your looking for ?
 
GNick55

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Genetic researchers believe there are no wild strains of cannabis. All cannabis growing naturally is believed to be feral. That means it is cultivated weed that has returned to nature. Nevertheless, the search for genetically pure strains continues.

lets say for example you were lost in the amazon rain forest after days and days turns into weeks of walking , and you have not seen or heard another human being , you walk around the corner and you find fine 1 lone cannabis plant would that be the wild strain your looking for ?
most of the amazon has went undiscovered
 
PianoStan

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I don't know about any of that stuff, all I know is I love growing and consuming it. But I'm sure that due to the fact that people used to think THC was the be all, end all, of cannabis, a lot of the really good stuff was sacrificially, albeit, possibly accidentally, bred out. But since the research is redefining what we call the high and what causes it, there will be marked efforts put forth to re-introduce these compounds back into the plant as much as possible, that's a fact. Especially as the market demands it. And hobby breeders will scour the land for these missing ingredients. Believe it or not, there are some very smart and capable home growers doing their due diligence in trying this as we speak. And some of them really know their stuff. That's where the truly great finds come from anyhow. Not from labs. And facts are facts, there have been some heavy THC laden plants I've tried that didn't do much and some lesser varieties that kicked my ass, so....there is that. Either way, I can't wait to see what we can do with this gift from God :)
You are absolutely 100% right. However, the biggest problem with recovering what was lost from those old plants, is that (as far as I am aware) nobody ever bothered to study them before they started changing them.

Let's say that you wanted to grow a new strain of marijuana today. And you're going to do it through cross-breeding. You can take samples of both plants that you want to cross to a lab, and obtain a complete breakdown of every chemical compound and ratio for each of them per plant. Then, after crossing the plants, you could have a lab provide you with the specifics of the child plant. And comparing the results tells you what was gained, and what was lost.

As far as I'm aware, and maybe I'm wrong, but nobody did that back in the 50's and 60's when it was discovered that Colchicine (a drug used to treat gout) could cause a marijuana plant to produce "super weed." A lot of home growers went to the doctor, complained of gout, and went home to start modifying their plant's genome.

Without knowing what was there to begin with, there really isn't any way to know what was lost, or in what ratio it existed, or whether or not it was a "good" loss or a "bad" one.

I'm not even disagreeing that some of my best highs come from 40 years ago. But I am definitely saying that the kind bud available at pretty much every corner in America today is a far superior product when compared to the moldy, seedy brick weed that was flooding the streets less than 30 years ago. Sure there was better weed out there. But the ridiculously stupid war on drugs meant that MOST people didn't have access to it. What I question today is, were those highs because I got my hands on some really good weed, or were those highs because those bricks of weed were carried in tanks full of diesel fuel? Or was it because dealers used to dip the weed in embalming fluid? Or was it because the weed was still being treated with Colchicine?

It seems to me that nostalgia is a very powerful force. And remembering "the good old days" is an easy trap, especially when the world seems to be driving itself off a cliff at an alarming rate. But nostalgia is a double edged sword, and if you could bring a baggie of weed from 1982 forward to today, I'm not sure that one WOULD like that high better. But that would be a subjective matter with a different experience from person to person.
 
B

Budclarkson

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how old are you?
no way in hell is weed better today..
a 12% indian landrace strain will get you higher and longer than a modern 30%+ strain today,..
science just discovered natural thcp in 2019 which is 33 times stronger than thc,.. what’s the next discovery? haha
when you breed for a gain there has to be a lose,. no way around it,.. so how much of the good ingredients have been breed out,..
no breeder truely knows what they are doing,..
and i’m definitely not here to argue,,
Where do you find legitimate landrace strains? Looking into what was posted as available in my “Where are the classic strains?” Topic
I sort of came to the conclusion that what was available are claimed hybrids approxiamating a particular landrace strain.

Was the stuff back in the 70s and 80s domestically grown or all imported? If imported I believe most of it was Sativa from Central America. A lot of junk including seeds and stems in the bag and dryer than shit. I don’t recall much anything sticky.
 
PianoStan

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So... While we're discussing potency and tolerance... I have a question.

Is there truth in the belief that partaking of different strains reduces tolerance? I've tried it and it seems to work somewhat like a tolerance break, which is also supposed to reduce tolerance.
The short answer is "no."

The long answer:
Tolerance is built through repeated use. The more often that your body encounters a molecule, the more efficient it becomes at metabolizing that molecule. (Within reason of course, don't try to build your tolerance to cyanide, or Tide pods! lol) While different strains of marijuana have many differences, they all have far more in common than they are different.

Delta-9 THC is the intoxicating cannabinoid that we are all obtaining through our preferred method of ingestion. Except it's really not. And I will go in depth here, so things are going to get scientific. But first of all, there are a couple of things that you may or may not know that I will point out as I go. I'm not trying to be pedantic, just informative.

The first this is that the human body makes its own cannabinoids. They are used as neurotransmitters both in the brain, and throughout the endocrine system. This means that a very large portion of your body's cells have their own cannabinoid receptors. This is why marijuana has both benefits, and effects on so many systems that it appears to be a magic cure-all for everything.

Now Delta-9 THC has a carboxyl group that would normally prevent it from being able to bind with your body's cannabinoid receptors. Whether you choose to de-carb the molecule in an oven via slow roast, or with your lighter, that carboxyl group has got to go, or no high for you! Once you get the Delta-9 THC into your blood stream, it must be hydroxylized into 11-Hydroxy-Delta 9-THC, and this is the actual molecule that has an intoxifying effect. It is carried mostly by the red blood cells, but some of it is free floating in the plasma.

When smoking weed, there is a 53 second time frame until the plasma is saturated with with Delta-9 THC, and it takes between 3-10 minutes for all of the body's cannabinoid receptors to become bound with 11-Hydroxy-Delta 9-THC. When consuming edibles it can take a few hours for the same thing to happen, depending on numerous factors including dosage, how full the GI tract is, overall health of the individual, and numerous other factors.

While the 11-Hydroxy-Delta 9-THC is used by the cannabinoid receptors, it is changed to 11-nor-9-carboxy-Delta 9-THC, and released back to the blood stream. When the 11-nor-9-carboxy-Delta 9-THC next makes its way to the liver it is then broken down into glucuronide as a final waste product. 80% of which is passed through the feces, and 20% in the urine.

Studies (peer reviewed) have shown that for a daily user, 23-27% of the 11-Hydroxy-Delta 9-THC that is produced becomes psychoactively available. While the rest is matabolized by the cannabinoid receptors throughout the rest of the body. Casual and first time users can get up to 33% because their bodies aren't as used to dealing with the 11-Hydroxy-Delta 9-THC.

When smoked, the mean time for all of that metabolism to occur is 4.5 hours. With edibles it can easily double that time frame, if not go longer.

If you personally are wondering why you don't seem to have the tolerance that you used to, as a nurse for over 30 years, I would say that it is most likely due to your age. You have said that you are over 70, and as one ages, the metabolic process simply slows down. Not to mention that you said that you mostly consume through edibles and tinctures. Edibles provide more THC into the blood stream because while the THC has that original carboxyl group, it is highly vulnerable to heat destruction. That is something that simply "is" and no amount of internet complaining can overcome it. So, as your metabolism slows down, if you continue to dose yourself the same, it will allow the 11-Hydroxy-Delta 9-THC to build up in your bloodstream. On top of that, whatever medications your doctor has prescribed for you can severely affect your metabolic rates further exacerbating any perceived changes in tolerance.

If it's an issue, changing the strength of the tincture, or how often you take it could easily make the problem go away. If it's not an issue, then just enjoy the extra high. Almost all of the aging process sucks ass, so this could be a blessing in disguise!!!
 
PianoStan

PianoStan

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Landrace describes a cultivar that has been improved by agricultural methods. I used the words "wild" which means never cultivated, and "feral" which means in a wild state after escape from domestication. It is the wild, never cultivated or bred cannabis that is believed to no longer exist. Evidence suggests that cannabis may be the oldest cultivated crop, beginning more than 4,000 years ago. It spread to the Western Hemisphere in 1545 when Spaniards imported it to Chile for its use as fiber. Genetic research is providing new science regarding the evolutionary history of many species, including cannabis. I expect this type of research to increase significantly if/when cannabis is reclassified here in the U.S.
At least since the war on drugs was declared, the only US agency that was allowed to cultivate marijuana in the US for the purpose of study was the National Institute of Health. And until the last 15-20 years, they would ONLY release the weed if the purpose of the study was to prove the negative effects of marijuana. And I don't have any proof that the policy has changed, but it became less of an issue.

States legalizing weed has certainly opened up more avenues for obtaining weed. And I'm sure that the government will expand their policy of study when (if) marijuana is rescheduled. But I expect their studies to focus on health issues and crime rates, with a particular emphasis on making vaping public enemy #1. There are far too many prisons, cops, judges, and lawyers that make their money off of weed for the government to do a complete about-face and head in a different direction.
 
7munkee

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Landrace describes a cultivar that has been improved by agricultural methods. I used the words "wild" which means never cultivated, and "feral" which means in a wild state after escape from domestication. It is the wild, never cultivated or bred cannabis that is believed to no longer exist. Evidence suggests that cannabis may be the oldest cultivated crop, beginning more than 4,000 years ago. It spread to the Western Hemisphere in 1545 when Spaniards imported it to Chile for its use as fiber. Genetic research is providing new science regarding the evolutionary history of many species, including cannabis. I expect this type of research to increase significantly if/when cannabis is reclassified here in the U.S.
The decription says:
"The Moroccan Landrace is at least 800 years old and is now quickly disappearing from the Rif Mountains. Moroccan farmers have used it for hash-making since the 1960’s. Prior to that, they used to cultivate it for its fine flowers. Some old-timers in Morocco still like to smoke the kief flowers in their long wooden pipes."
 
GNick55

GNick55

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The decription says:
"The Moroccan Landrace is at least 800 years old and is now quickly disappearing from the Rif Mountains. Moroccan farmers have used it for hash-making since the 1960’s. Prior to that, they used to cultivate it for its fine flowers. Some old-timers in Morocco still like to smoke the kief flowers in their long wooden pipes."

Where do you find legitimate landrace strains? Looking into what was posted as available in my “Where are the classic strains?” Topic
I sort of came to the conclusion that what was available are claimed hybrids approxiamating a particular landrace strain.

Was the stuff back in the 70s and 80s domestically grown or all imported? If imported I believe most of it was Sativa from Central America. A lot of junk including seeds and stems in the bag and dryer than shit. I don’t recall much anything sticky.
i’m from the southern ontario region, im 57 yrs old and 40 yrs ago we got lots hashish, hash oil, many varieties of weed, didn’t get much mexican brick weed, usually the crappy stuff was colombian,. some of the best highs was thai stick, hawaiian, panama red and what was called red haired sensi buds?,.. i’m sure a few more
 
cannafarmer420

cannafarmer420

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most of the amazon has went undiscovered
Amazon, deserts, underwater. The water levels used to be lower so a ton of crap is probably covered by water, sand and rain forest. The deforestation of the Amazon keeps uncovering old cities and whatnot. Plus LIDAR has helps a ton with the Amazon for scanning. Graham Hancock is my guy
 
7munkee

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i’m from the southern ontario region, im 57 yrs old and 40 yrs ago we got lots hashish, hash oil, many varieties of weed, didn’t get much mexican brick weed, usually the crappy stuff was colombian,. some of the best highs was thai stick, hawaiian, panama red and what was called red haired sensi buds?,.. i’m sure a few more
I am 57 also. I never really asked where my bud came from as a teen...I was just happy to have it. But we DID get a lot of hash. I assumed it was from Spain because the guy who sold it to us went to Spain 2 or 4 times per year.
 

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