First time grow in zone 9b, lets learn from my mistakes

[Thatoneguyyouknow_]

He’s in Hollister, California! Whoever said they were 9B or if he said he was a 9B someone is fucking up! He’s either dumping too much fertilizer on them or not getting a handle on the water! Either drowning them or letting the pots dry out too much and the roots get hot! Which I don’t think it’s happening at 85°! It ain’t rocket science!

Ok yea, roll back.

Do what the man says and disregard me for now.

 

[Oldchucky]

Hell, I am at a 104° and my plants are in 1 2 and 3 gallon pots and they look a hell of a lot better than his! And Mine, don’t look great! You need to dive in and find out what’s wrong! They’re not made of crystal!

 

[Thatoneguyyouknow_]

Well shit, according to the USDA, you are indeed in zone 9. I never wouldve guessed that in a million years. Apparently you are in the same plant hardiness zone as Phoenix AZ and Laredo, TX


That does not seem right. But guess it is.


Sheeeeeeeeiiiiit, wish it was only 85 here.

 

[Oldchucky]

Doesn’t matter what zone you’re in! You look at your temperature and you look at your humidity and you make adjustments according to that nine be on the East Coast isn’t gonna quite be the same as nine be on the West Coast! I don’t care what the USDA says! And you look at the average humidity and the average temperatures throughout the summer and determine how much is perlite to add to your soil! Humid add a bunch, dry, not so much! But you need good dry wet cycles no matter where you’re at!

 

[Thatoneguyyouknow_]

Doesn’t matter what zone you’re in! You look at your temperature and you look at your humidity and you make adjustments according to that nine be on the East Coast isn’t gonna quite be the same as nine be on the West Coast! I don’t care what the USDA says! And you look at the average humidity and the average temperatures throughout the summer and determine how much is perlite to add to your soil! Humid add a bunch, dry, not so much! But you need good dry wet cycles no matter where you’re at!

well i know that lmao.

The planting zones deal with averages, and the rarest thing you actually see in the real worlds with averages like that, is the average itself.

Still surprises me, ive spent a lot of time in and around the Basin, around phoenix, and around Laredo. Through summer. And i would absolutely without a doubt prefer to be in the cali basin out of those 3 places. That's for sure.

Although considering there is a heat wave going on from the usa, to Europe, to the middle east and Asian right now. Im still surprised its only 85F anywhere in zone 9 in North America right now. Astonished actually.

You can essentially complete disregard my ramblings on dark pots.

 

[Oldchucky]

The warmest he gets is high 80s for the next week! The driest he gets is 35% humidity! His humidity goes from 35 to 85 on a daily basis! So his shit is not going to dry out very fast because those plants obviously aren’t helping anything out! And a lot of it is dependent on how he made up his soil! But it’s made! Now he needs to adapt! And sometimes using a simple, rinky-dink tool, can get you pointed in the right direction! Especially with the larger pots! And I don’t know why anyone would pick dark pots!

 

[Thatoneguyyouknow_]

The warmest he gets is high 80s for the next week! The driest he gets is 35% humidity! His humidity goes from 35 to 85 on a daily basis! So his shit is not going to dry out very fast because those plants obviously aren’t helping anything out! And a lot of it is dependent on how he made up his soil! But it’s made! Now he needs to adapt!

i wasnt worried about drying out, i was worried about the roots getting a little warmer each day without a cool enough night to cool them off.


Currently thats killing all my larger potato bags right now. They arent cooling off enough at night before day warms em up even more. My little bags, although needing water out the ass everyday, dont seem to be suffering all that much, if any. When i shove my hand down inside those big bags, even at midnight, they are WARM. A LOT* warmer then the small bags at midnight. Soaking them with extra hose water isnt helping much, even done after dark, theyre already moist inside too so its only going to encourage rot to keep doing so.. Its only getting to like 75-78 at night here rn.

The small bags wilt a bit in mid afternoon rn, the big bags wilt all day until theyre in the shade for a bit.


You still shouldnt grow plants outside in black containers though. Any outdoor container growers should really take this to heart. It absolutely makes a difference. Pale, and porous to allow evaporation to remove heat is the way to go. Whether tan clay, white concrete, or beige felt pots. A plant's root, even a cactus, does not want to be hotter then 68f. Preferably 58-64 ish

 

[Oldchucky]

That’s because things don’t evaporate in Tennessee! 85 and 20% is a hell of a lot different than 85 and 70%! I don’t know how you guys do it! I think you’re insane! L O L! Hang in there, brother! When I’m in my 35 gallon pots, I can go out when it’s 110 out and stick my hand down in there and he’s cool as a cucumber about 10 inches down! Because of evaporation! The humidity is crucial!

 

[Thatoneguyyouknow_]

That’s because things don’t evaporate in Tennessee! 85 and 20% is a hell of a lot different than 85 and 70%! I don’t know how you guys do it! I think you’re insane! L O L! Hang in there, brother! When I’m in my 35 gallon pots, I can go out when it’s 110 out and stick my hand down in there and he’s cool as a cucumber about 10 inches down! Because of evaporation! The humidity is crucial!

my humidity is under 30% and has been for a bit now lol. my flood plane is kicking dust as i walk on it lol.

 

[Thatoneguyyouknow_]

today was 95F and about 28% humidity. 101 heat index.

pot color makes a difference, 100% without a doubt, and it means the difference between life and death for plants in some places lol


90% of your roots are within the first few inches of the surface of the container on all sides lol. If the plant is small, within the top 3-4 inches of soil, nowherew else really, besides one little tap root. thats smaller then most plant's tap roots.


10" down in the middle of a gaint pot doesnt really matter much when half the root volume of the plant is still about 30f higher temp then it evolved to really be ok with.. the root density there mid-pot in a large containor basically nothing lol. Its just a moisture and nutrient reservoir in a container.


If you grow in black containers where its hot, you will see improvement changing to paler color, pretty much guaranteed. Even if the results you have now are beyond satisfactory lol. Volume increases exponentially opposed to surface area, the bigger the pot, the less evaporation can cool it, and thats just thermodynamics + geometry lol. Consistently high temps would ideally have the container gardener in smaller, paler, more porous pots, with a more moisture retentive soil. Cooler temps consistently would pull me towards larger containers and a better draining soil mix. Because physics lol.

 

[cbrians]

Holy shit I don’t think I’ve had that many notifications before, thought I was in trouble

will catch up but lemme drop this here first

apparently hollister is in like five zones

 

[cbrians]

no matter the size of the plant or root system, the tap roots go deep first, for water access. Containers prevent this, the tap root goes straight to the bottom of the pot and starts spining in circles.


The nutrient gathering fiber roots, spread outwards in the top few inches of soil. Out in all directions from the meristem. When they hit the container walls, they follow them down the sides of the pot, joint the tap root, and start spinning around in circles.


Fine roots will spread out evenly through the pot, but the meatiest, fastest growing roots will almost always find their way to the outer perimeter of a container. That's why circular pots are reccomended over square. So roots dont concetrate in any one spot before moving. And wider containers are reccomended for cannabis over more vertical ones, because cannabis doesn't make a particularly dramatic tap root. It makes one, but itll only go a foot or two deep before spreading out into thinner stringier roots. Sometimes a cannabis plant wont even make a legit tap root, itll make only nutrient gathering finer roots unless you let the plant get really big.


A small plant in a 30 gal pot, with container completely unshaded, (educated guessing, this is just stuff ive learned from time i lived in arizona, and being a long time succulent and cacti collector lol) would probably take a week or so to really start seeing the downsides of being in a black unshielded container, but i can almost promise, if you had a white one and identical plant next to it, after a month or two the difference would be fairly dramatic, and only be amplified as the plant got bigger if it wasnt able to shade the container well on its own. In Phoenix, any plant, doesnt matter, from cactus to hibiscus, if its in a container outside thats black and above ground, the thing will probably die sometime during the summer unless it's on a constant drip. Not just grow slower. Most ornamental gardens out there are built into white concrete planters at least 3 inches thick, in ground, or large 20+ gallon white concrete pots that are a couple inches thick. Thin black nursery pots can even partially melt out there if in sun or set on asphalt. If it gets above 90 frequently, black containers are not great ideas.


Just wraping some white linen cloth or pillowcase or something around a black pot can make a huge difference to root zone temp and moisture stability

Normally in a 30 gal youd be totally fine though, but conditions across the entire northern hemisphere are a bit intense rn. Its been 90 by 11am every day here in TN for like 2 weeks now without a drop of natural rain, and humidities which are normally about 50-60% this time of year here, are hovering around 20-25%. The trees are literally wilting and sunburning here, and people are dropping from heat illness all over the northern hemisphere from Kansas to germany to the middle east rn. Deciding to leave a tree to shade my plot from 4-6PM, im very glad i made that decision now I have plants in ground, seeing 5 gallons a day right now, shaded from 4-6, that are still starting to look a bit overworked by the time the shade comes. Its brutal out there right now. More brutal then i recall for a while. I work outside for a living and havent had a sunburn in a couple years. I came home from work sunburned today.


If it stays hot enough, long enough, without a cool breezy night here and there, a larger pot will become a hinderance more then a smaller, itll take more days to get hot because it heats slowly, but once its hot, moisture, evaporation and air movement is far less efficient at cooling the thing because volume increases exponentially opposed to surface area on any given object. The very same thing that usually helps you regulate your root zone in more typical conditions, will become your enemy in conditions like this. Trying to cool a hot root zone with cold water can shock and even stall a plant too once the temp difference becomes large enough. At least with succulents and azaleas in phoenix anyway. If an azalea in a container is too hot, and you give it cold water, you can kill it after a few cold waterings (if the pot is small enough and its bound anyway lol)

Sorry sativa dabs.

don’t apologize! overwhelm me with information hahaha.

I think once I get thru this work week, and they have a little more time to recover, I’m going to put them back in the shady corner I had them in and not look until october

I may try and wrap them up with something. Today was the first day they looked a little perkier. I soaked them and misted the leaves and I think it helped a bit. Not arguing! Just relaying what I’ve seen.

I think next year I’m putting these fuckers in the dirt so I can’t move them and stress me and them out

 

[cbrians]

I think it’s time for you to freak out! You got six plants there! Elevate the pots off The ground a little, and quit watering one of them for about a week! Or dig your hand down into the pot and find out what’s going on down there! Looks like you’re getting nowhere fast at this rate! You’re at 85°! That is ideal! You’re fucking up the watering somehow and you better figure it out! That’s why you get a long probe, single probe, moisture meter for poking in to the larger bags! Tells you what’s going on in about five seconds! For less than 15 bucks!

ABOUT TIME YOU SHOWED UP @Oldchucky

I have one that I forgot about until right now

 

[cbrians]

I’m just gonna try and touch on all the subjects real quick, I appreciate the information!

-okay black pots are bad. I remember trying to find white in a similar size and they were way more expensive, now I know why. I can try to find something to wrap them in. I will definitely check that soil temp tomorrow morning to get a baseline. I get home about 6 am and leave at 3 so it gives me two times to check.

-Hollister in a nice little nook that doesn’t get too too hot, but has potential. We usually get windy in the afternoon, affectionately called the Hollister Hurricane. Hence my previous stress about them blowing away.

-also I need to read a book on fucking plant science, I’m gettin a crash course on here.

 

[cbrians]

That’s because things don’t evaporate in Tennessee! 85 and 20% is a hell of a lot different than 85 and 70%! I don’t know how you guys do it! I think you’re insane! L O L! Hang in there, brother! When I’m in my 35 gallon pots, I can go out when it’s 110 out and stick my hand down in there and he’s cool as a cucumber about 10 inches down! Because of evaporation! The humidity is crucial!

go home and finger my pots got it

 

[Thatoneguyyouknow_]

I’m just gonna try and touch on all the subjects real quick, I appreciate the information!

-okay black pots are bad. I remember trying to find white in a similar size and they were way more expensive, now I know why. I can try to find something to wrap them in. I will definitely check that soil temp tomorrow morning to get a baseline. I get home about 6 am and leave at 3 so it gives me two times to check.

-Hollister in a nice little nook that doesn’t get too too hot, but has potential. We usually get windy in the afternoon, affectionately called the Hollister Hurricane. Hence my previous stress about them blowing away.

-also I need to read a book on fucking plant science, I’m gettin a crash course on here.

if your only in the 80s, its not nearly as important as i was initially making it out to be for you, itll help, but id def default to oldchucky's advice over mine there for sure. My advice will actually make your problem worse if the problem was overwatering.

If you get into 2-3 straight weeks over 90 never dropping once below 75 or something, like 80% of the USA is right now, black pots do more harm then good, but its prob not your issue.

I didnt notice the 9b til earlier today lmao. And my brain went straight to "Phoenix is 9b, this dudes plants are in black pots, hes cookin em straight up"

 

[cbrians]

if your only in the 80s, its not nearly as important as i was initially making it out to be for you, itll help, but id def default to oldchucky's advice over mine there for sure. My advice will actually make your problem worse if the problem was overwatering.

If you get into 2-3 straight weeks over 90 never dropping once below 75 or something, like 80% of the USA is right now, black pots will twist ya up a lot more then they are right now.

Checks out. I had stopped watering for a few days, and they looked as shitty, but perked up about an hour after watering this morning.

Related-talk about my soil real quick-it is partly the dirt in my backyard, which is thick sticky clay. If my weed could be that sticky it would be a dream. I wanted to use it because I was moving so much of it, in hopes of water retention. I did dress it up (there’s a link somewhere) but maybe when I initially watered it got too wet? and the roots couldn’t fight thru it?

I also top dressed them with gaia green about a week before transplanting them into pots with new soil and various amendments. Could they be getting some weird nute issue?

Just saying, since maybe it’s not the temperatures. I think it may just be me, good ol user error

 

[Thatoneguyyouknow_]

Checks out. I had stopped watering for a few days, and they looked as shitty, but perked up about an hour after watering this morning.

Related-talk about my soil real quick-it is partly the dirt in my backyard, which is thick sticky clay. If my weed could be that sticky it would be a dream. I wanted to use it because I was moving so much of it, in hopes of water retention. I did dress it up (there’s a link somewhere) but maybe when I initially watered it got too wet? and the roots couldn’t fight thru it?

I also top dressed them with gaia green about a week before transplanting them into pots with new soil and various amendments. Could they be getting some weird nute issue?

Just saying, since maybe it’s not the temperatures. I think it may just be me, good ol user error

cannabis can tolerate clay in ground but its not the biggest fan of it, cannabis is not good at pulling the moisture out of dense packed soils and its also not very good at anchoring itself in it either. Those plants that can split cement with their roots? thats def not cannabis lmao.


Clay keeps moisture on roots in a container, but in a way the plant cant access very well. If i was using a clay base in a container for cannabis, which honestly isnt something id do, i would dry the clay, and bust it up fine and mix it like 70/30 with course building sand. Id mix that 50/50 with something organic and inert like peat or coir. Probably coir. And then id use that as only part of my soil mix with something heavy in organic content like compost or something. Then id take that mix and cut it with about 30% perlite. Out here the clay is full of sulfur and shale rock too though. Out there it may be different.

 

[cbrians]

cannabis can tolerate clay in ground but its not the biggest fan of it, cannabis is not good at pulling the moisture out of dense packed soils and its also not very good at anchoring itself in it either. Those plants that can split cement with their roots? thats def not cannabis lmao.


Clay keeps moisture on roots in a container, but in a way the plant cant access very well. If i was using a clay base in a container for cannabis, which honestly isnt something id do, i would dry the clay, and bust it up fine and mix it like 70/30 with course building sand. Id mix that 50/50 with something organic and inert like peat or coir. Probably coir. And then id use that as only part of my soil mix. Honestly id only use clay in containers if i had no other choice lol.

hahaha fair. It’s a learning experience right? I did split it with a bunch of other stuff, I tried to do equal, for the most part, of coco coir, perlite, compost peat moss combo, and some organic potting soil I bought a truckload of lmao. I mixed it, got it wet, squeezed a handful and it still crumbled easily.

I also was on the fence about using it, but then I realized there’s so much ag in my area, there has to be a way to make it work. oh well.

 

[Thatoneguyyouknow_]

hahaha fair. It’s a learning experience right? I did split it with a bunch of other stuff, I tried to do equal, for the most part, of coco coir, perlite, compost peat moss combo, and some organic potting soil I bought a truckload of lmao. I mixed it, got it wet, squeezed a handful and it still crumbled easily.

I also was on the fence about using it, but then I realized there’s so much ag in my area, there has to be a way to make it work. oh well.

its probably fine then lol


Plants that look all wilty are only going to be one of three things. Underwatering, doubtful at this point, a fungal root infection, also doubtful, or overwatering.

Do you have any perlite or pumice in the mix? If not that's probably the root of your issue, no pun intended, and its prob overwatering. A small plant in a large volume container of highly water retentive soil in the warmth is a recipe for ending up with root rot if you arent watering very carefully and at the right time. .